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#21 datto510

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 01:08 PM

This is more like the Ratsun I fell in love with! I'm learning stuff!
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#22 datzenmike

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 01:45 PM

3. They read on the internet that the Z head is a POS, and everything on the internet is true, isn't it?
so they toodle around in their carby L20 or Z20/22/24 without considering the cheap and bolt on worldm of possibilities described at the top of this thread, using the Z head they have, and a Z24 or Z22 block and L/Z20 crank (and I recommend EFI) to make their motor WAY better. Which is the only reason I spoke up in the first place.:blink:

and I would rather have a Z20 any day over an L16 or J13, or even R16, but I would not bother with a L20 or Z series motor any more either. FJ20 SR20 KA24DE or even a CA18DE are all better options.


Totally agree with #3 POS is way too critical a comment. 'Less potential' would be better and if not going balls to the wall with a motor a stock Z22 or Z24 should really torque a 510 around town. When I more or less started on line a few years back I had previously had some L16, L20B experience and everyone called the Z motors shit but there was no info as to why. What makes it shit? I had to get a few and take them apart and find out myself. Had to figure out the whole NAPS emission thing and how it affects the motor. Actually it doesn't do much it's the lack of keeping the complex emission system in working order that causes problems and a bad rep gets around.
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#23 The Stig

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 06:00 PM

So next question..I'll post it here cause I read it here

This gives you a 2389cc L-series motor that doesnt require using defective (crack prone) Z24 block,


One more thing. LOOK for the block to be cracked out at the middle stud hole for the head. People tend to bolt the head back down without tapping out and cleaning it.


How does one find/identify these cracks, I looked at the shortblock I had, and looked at the surface around the middle headbolt holes and didn't see anything
I then filled them with WD-40 and they seem to be holding. Am I looking in the wrong spots? I always thought that the repeat head-gasket issues were a blend of warped head and the incompetence of the last guy who didn't find it.

A explanation of this might be good for this sticky anyway

#24 datzenmike

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 06:35 PM

This gives you a 2389cc L-series motor that doesnt require using defective (crack prone) Z24 block,


Boring the L20B from 85m to 89mm is barely do able and an act of desperation, I think. The Z22 would be better but still you are making a short rod long stroke motor which side loads the pistons excessively.


One more thing. LOOK for the block to be cracked out at the middle stud hole for the head. People tend to bolt the head back down without tapping out and cleaning it.


How does one find/identify these cracks, I looked at the shortblock I had, and looked at the surface around the middle headbolt holes and didn't see anything
I then filled them with WD-40 and they seem to be holding. Am I looking in the wrong spots? I always thought that the repeat head-gasket issues were a blend of warped head and the incompetence of the last guy who didn't find it.

A explanation of this might be good for this sticky anyway


Some blocks, more so the Z24 tend to crack in this area. I've never seen this and most who have experienced this say their re builder said so when they rejected the block. Well it may seen like I'm from Missouri but... show me! If you can see it I would avoid it. If preparing a race motor and X rays show a hidden crack I would avoid it. For a stock re build and you can't see anything... shrug.

Z24s and known for blowing the head gasket every 100K. The Nissan fix is always loosen each head bolt separately one at a time (when cold) and re torque to spec at every tune up. Who does that? So yeah the gasket blows from shearing effects caused but thermal cycling. Just a matter of time. With that many blown gaskets there is always the risk of overheating and the aluminum head expands more than the block so the bolts are placed under strain and maybe this is a contributing factor in crack formation. I don't know. Like you say the home mechanic may do a poor job of replacing the gasket. Poorly cleaned bolt holes, not checking for minor warp or cheap $15 gaskets and combined with lack of re torque... it blows sooner?
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#25 hang_510

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 11:43 PM

I looked at the shortblock...

... the incompetence of the last guy ....

A explanation of this might be good for this sticky anyway

one crack(2&3) i found appeared after surfacing. its about to be fired next week.

the last Z24 block i had that was 'repaired'( :angry: ) and as a result both of the bolt holes were cracked.
the Z24 block i just blew up had cracks (1&2) and would have been able to still use it.

using studs should also help.

"I can spend time working on the Dattos, or wasting money at the strip club. You make the call." :D


I'll put on chain mail and a dirt bike tire jock strap and drive it!!!!!


#26 tHe 'Z'

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 01:06 AM

best way to sort this out is put a z18et bluebird (910) against a L20B et bluebird (910), making sure both cars are using standard parts ie (same turbos, same size injectors etc) and see who wins.

i agree with the stig, fair enough im new 'here' but ive had a lot of experience with bluebirds (910's) and engines.

the point i see from the stig is the z18et being the FIRST Z engine was NOT designed for anti pollution, and if i remember from my research the point of the dual spark (with the z18et) was to burn ALL the fuel in the chamber thus improving economy (as it now needs less fuel to make more power as all the fuel in there is used) without decreasing flow or power.

now from where i sit, and logically this is, how does an l20b head have better flow when the air comes in one way then has to turn back on itself? isnt it quicker and better flowing to come in 1 side and out the other?

another reason many l20b owners dont use z heads is because people talk them down, the parts are FAR less available and l20b's are lining garages as they are the most common engines around (besides rb's)

1 thing i also want to point out is you are using z22e, z22s, z20, z24 and z24i to compare to the l20b. get some stats on the z18et heads THEN make your comparisons.
the z20, 22 and 24 here in aus are used in 4wd's only, because lets face it, they suck, they have torque but have no balls.

also if the l20b head was better in design and flow wouldn't george fury have used that in his 910 bluebird at bathurst to win pole position over 5L V8 commodores, falcons and ford sierras with cosworth motors?
just from that, and i may be stupid but i would say the fact nissan used the Z engine, would mean they are designed and work better?

thats my 2c

george fury's race
fury overtakes 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjRPboiUNnk some more fury action

i think weve all been off topic anyways, the OP made a great post/topic with stats that many people have trouble finding so hats off to him.

id also like to state that the george fury bathurst bluebird took 45+psi on qualifying laps and ran 25+psi for the race. the turbo used for qualifying (3 or 5 laps in them days) was removed before the race and replaced as it was killed, naturally lol. these turbos also had no water cooling, only oil cooling but name a L series engine that can hold that amount boost.........

#27 Panther

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 02:31 AM

Hey I like my Z24 engine. Bought an 85 720 for $400 that had been sitting for 10 years. Plugs, Fresh gas and it fired right up. 211k+ miles and still running. Yeah it is a bit of a gutless wonder due to the mileage but who can complain. Looking to put KA24 pistons and rods in to bring it up from 8.3:1 to try getting better HP..... who knows perhaps even a small turbo.

#28 datzenmike

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 09:14 AM

KA pistons will fit on the Z24 rods and would be less disruptive to crank balance than the 'thinner lighter' KA rods. KA24E pistons would give you 9.6 compression... a bit high.
......................................KA24E rod.............................................................Z24 rod
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#29 Williespeed

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 12:24 AM

[quote name='kiznook' date='31 July 2007 - 12:47 PM' timestamp='1185914855' post='13865']

Turbo 2.2L
7.87:1 Compression ratio with 45.2cc open chambered head.
Parts: Z22 crank, 2.2E pistons, Z22S/L20B rods in Z22block or Z20/L20B block bored +2mm,
s/2+r+p: 224.4
piston deck height: -3.45 (below block)

So a stock Z22 motor with 2.2E pistons would be a perfect candidate to turbocharge?

If this is the case are there exhaust manifolds and turbos that are readily available and bolt right up or is this something I would need to fab myself?

What recommendations would you make as far as carburetion I was just about to order a Weber 32/36 DGEV would a side draft be better? or another model carb?

I want good economy and reliability but when I am climbing a hill and need to go from creep to give her hell I would like a turbo on tap same for the highway (more highway than dirt) any recommendations and advice would be greatly appreciated.

#30 datzenmike

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 06:34 AM

A lot of fabrication unless you can import a Z18ET exhaust from Japan. I'm not keen on low compression motors for turbo application. They're ok when boosting but the rest of the time (which is almost all the time) it's a tired 7:1low compression motor.
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#31 Williespeed

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 08:23 AM

A lot of fabrication unless you can import a Z18ET exhaust from Japan. I'm not keen on low compression motors for turbo application. They're ok when boosting but the rest of the time (which is almost all the time) it's a tired 7:1low compression motor.


Thanks Datzenmike thats exactly the kind of practical advice I'm looking for, what about a stock Z22 with a turbo?

#32 datzenmike

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 02:54 PM

Thanks Datzenmike thats exactly the kind of practical advice I'm looking for, what about a stock Z22 with a turbo?


We should move this to the Engine section instead of filling this sticky. Start a Q&A in the engine section and I'll come back and add these posts to it.
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#33 custom510

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 02:14 PM

great info thanks B)



#34 That4doorKiD

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 12:47 PM

can I use sr20 pistons in my L20b block bored .040 over to 86mm? How can i make the l20b rods work with SR pistons, wouldn't it have to be a custom bushing made to the sr pin size?


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#35 datzenmike

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 08:14 PM

L20B rods are 145.9mm and pistons are 38.1 pin height so if you add in the 86mm /2 stroke  your get 227mm (plus or minus) from crank center line to the top of piston when at TDC. The L20B block is 227.45mm tall remember this.

 

If you put an 86mm SR piston with a 32mm pin height on (somehow) you get 42+145.9+32=220mm this means the piston is close to 6mm from the top of the block. This unused space above the piston accounts for almost 39cc and would now become part of the combustion chamber.

 

An L20B over bored to 86mm and with an open chamber head would have a compression of about 8.55

 

I don't know what the piston dish is on an SR piston is, but for argument sake lets say it's a flattop. The aforementioned 86mm L20B with an SR piston would have a compression of 6.33.... even less if there is a dish.

 

The longest Nissan rod that will fit without the SR piston hitting the under side of the head would be a the 152.5mm Z20E (6") rods.

 

L20B bored to 86mm with 152.5mm Z20E rods (86/2=43+152.5+32= 227.5mm just 0.05mm above the block deck and inside the gasket thickness.) and SR pistons (assuming flattop) the compression would be 10.57. If the SR piston has any dish this number will be lower.

 

You still need to address the piston pin/rod small end diameter. The SR pistons are meant to be used with oil squirters to keep them cool... assuming you are boosting this? If using a bushing the SR pistons are floating so keep this feature.

 

 

Have someone verify my math. I'm assuming the SR pin height is 32mm and there is no piston dish. If you know differently let me know and I'll rework the numbers. Hope this helps.


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