mklotz70 project MEND

[erichwaslike]

 

 

do want, where did you find these at?

[mklotz70]

Other places have them, but I think this is where I got mine.

 

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=3904161&PMAKA=891-4121

[Tenz]

wow mike...things are comming along nicely..keep up the good work...from down under

[mklotz70]

Thanks Terry :)

[mklotz70]

Wayno was over yesterday and got me thinking about an "all plate" UCA again. He's brought it up before, as well as my buddy A100addict. So....I had a bit of time last night to get started on it in CAD. This would be for a lowered rig.....it would need a bend in it for a stock ride height rig. The dimensions are kinda close....ball joint isn't in correct alignment between bushings and the angles on the gussets need tweaked.

 

[]2eDeYe]

Now that is nice, is it 3/8 plate? Could you extend the gussets to the bend, not that they would need it.

[dscottdatsun]

Mike, the plate arm looks good. :thumbup:

 

Would you be able to use it w/ coilovers?

[wayno]

I have to say my first impression was, "That is pretty", and the second thing I saw was that there is a pterodactyl clamped on to that arm, or some kind of long snout dinosaur taking a bite, excuse me if I am weird. :lol:

[mklotz70]

Thanks guys! Yep...3/8" plate. Laser cut. I'm not negating the the "weird" part, but I see the dino resemblance too :)

 

Let me just start by saying that they will ABSOLUTELY NOT look like this!!!!! LOL Just thought I'd get a bit creative. Widen the opening a bit for coilovers, but I have no clue if they'd clear with this design. I'd have to have some dimensions on coil overs to check against the frame and arm first. If someone reading this wants to send me that, I'll try to incorporate that into the design just in case. I extended the gussets, then figured I throw a few sun rays in there. Not exactly rising sun. Most likely, the final design will have solid plate and be a combo between the above plain jane and this one.

 

 

 

[]2eDeYe]

I have a coilover modeled up at home, I can email it to you tonight. What file format does your program use?

[mklotz70]

I can use/convert .SLDPRT .IGS .STEP .....just tried all three on mcmaster carr's site. the SLDPRT converts the fastest and the STEP file the slowest, but all three converted and gave me the same bolt image.

 

:)

[]2eDeYe]

Sweet I can save to all of those. I'll shoot it to you tonight. :)

[BEEBANI]

Mike, my flat plate uca looks very similiar and will clear a coilover, but just barely. I had to champfer the inside radius at a 45 to clear at full travel.

[mklotz70]

is that full travel on a lowered rig or stock ride height rig? Did you use bayonet mount coil overs or mod the shock tower?

 

Will your adjustable arms shorten down to 7.5"....cross shaft center to ball joint center?

[BEEBANI]

That was on Clayton's truck, '78 kc, dropped 6" total and 2" drop spindles. QA1 shocks with the bearing type ends and my coilover mounts.

 

I'll check my uca's tonight Mike, but I believe they will shorten that far.

[mklotz70]

So, sometimes I kinda drag my feet on certain things while I try to figure them out. Sooner or later, everything starts to gel and progress is made :) Case in point, I needed to double check and update some measurements on the flat plate arms. While I was at the bench, I started tracing the three arms....stock, bent, flat, onto paper and comparing the center line offset of the ball joint. Because I wanted to have one plate cut, I was looking to put the joint somewhere in the middle of where I have the flat and the bent. As I'm checking things out, I notice that the stock one is basically(within a 1/16") is right in the middle of them. Perfect!!! With the tracings and the measurements, I got back on the CAD and started another plate from scratch. If I were a real CAD designer, I probably could have started in 3D and moved things around, but I started in 2D. I thought I'd share a bit on the progression. :)

 

 

The top rectangle is the cross shaft dimensions. 2" tall because that's the dia of the bushing tubes. The width and inner lines are set at the edges of the bushing tubes. The vert rect was an easy way to offset 7/8" from the horizontal center and 7.125" from the vert center of the cross shaft. I copied the ball joint bolt pattern from a previous drawing.

 

 

 

I put lines an 1/8" in from the edges of the bushing tubes to give me that much space for some kind of weld to seal up the edge of the plate. The 2" straight extensions, down from those tubes is what the stock arm has, so I thought for clearance, I'd just go with that. In this pic, I was trying to figure out the the shape....you'll see it change a bit. Basically, I just kept drawing and deleting lines until it was what I wanted.

 

 

 

Here it is blocked out....now to add some curves.....which are done with a simple fillet command in CAD.

 

 

 

 

From there, I turned it slightly and extruded it to 3/8". This work is being done as a sheet metal part.....way easier to put bends in!!!

 

 

 

View with the sketch turned off.

 

 

 

Turned the sketch back on and took a measurement. I wanted to see how much the bend would shorten the arm.

 

 

 

 

I then went down to the shop and remeasured the arms. I had the length off just a bit, so I readjusted both arms to match what they should be. The bend is a 1/2" radius.

 

 

 

 

It dawned on me that I needed to find out if the flat arm at 6" would be too short once bent.....so I bent the 6" arm.....Viola!!!! It's only .009" off!!!! That's certainly close enough!!!! What that means is that if I have the plate cut, then bend it to the 154 deg angle I want, it will be the length I need for the stock ride height arm!! SWEET!!!

 

 

 

 

Since I picked the location of the bend where I did, it won't affect the where the arms meet the tubes, but it will take away the side to side angle I have with the sheet metal test arm right now. I set the angle right in the middle of the original two bends, so it should be a good compromise. Worse case, I have to limit the suspension travel just a hair.

 

 

[mklotz70]

....and when they're combined in an assembly with the cross shaft and new gussets, they look like this. This is probably pretty dang close to the final arm. The gusset was intentionally made short enough to work on the bent arm and the angle was left the same so that the same part could be flipped and used front/back. I'm pretty pleased with these :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[]2eDeYe]

Looks great Mike :cool:

[mklotz70]

Thanks! I'm kinda anxious to fab up some parts :) Sure wish I had a 3x3 or 4x4 cnc plasma cutter here!!

[mklotz70]

Now I really, really wish I had that plasma cutter here!!! There's probably a good 3 hrs into this plate. I don't move too fast and take lots of breaks, so someone else could probably do it in half that. Anyway...... I basically just took pics today. I've previously done video of just about everything I did today, so I didn't really want to take the time or repeat it all. I may see about turning the pics into a vid to put on youtube....we'll see.

 

So far, it looks really good. I'm not sure I'll even make the gussets by hand....it won't really prove anything. I'm going to tack this flat plate into place and do all the double checking and measuring for the lowered rigs, then I'll put the bend in the plate and check everything for the stock ride height. If it all checks good, I'll get a quote on the parts and see about placing an order.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mklotz70]

Not perfect, but close enough.

 

 

 

 

The hole is bigger than it needs to be, but the other hole saws were too small.

 

 

 

 

Looks like it will pull the top of the spindle back a bit, which I wanted and expected, so it will increase caster a bit more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can see that the front to back placement of the ball joint is almost identical to the stock arm....it's just inboard more because I needed it shorter.

 

 

 

 

 

A bit less caster than the stock ride arm.....good...wanted and expected.

 

 

 

 

The mill scale is a pain! I may see about giving it an acid dip tomorrow.....if I still have some. If it's raining, I'll probably just grind it off.

 

[mklotz70]

Video is processing. Here's some pics from the last couple of days. Spent a lot of time working on the bending....still needs more work, but I needed to tack the arm together to see if it was correct. The camber is pretty much perfect.... 2/10ths of a degree neg. The caster is about 6.5, which might be a bit much, but stock caster on the 521 is 3-3.5 degree I think and it's not quite enough. Input on the amount of caster is welcomed!! Now would be the time to adjust it in CAD to take some out. Basically, it will move the wheel forward in the wheel well just a hair if I take some out, but probably no more than a 1/4".....which a poor toe-in adjustment could move it that much! lol I like that the arm is at a slight upwards angle. That will cause the camber to pull the top of the tire in with any upwards movement of the tire. Ought to handle like a slot car. I wish it were going to be like that on the stock ride height. Anyway....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mklotz70]

[]2eDeYe]

Looks great. Have you though about one of these? You could probably make one yourself for a few bucks less.

 

http://www.swagoffroad.com/20-TON-Press-Brake-DIY-Builder-Kit_p_40.html

 

 

I'm gonna order one of their 12 ton kits for the press I just got. :cool:

[mklotz70]

I have actually. In fact, during my "bend" research, I came across that exact bender. It says it will bend 3/8" thick, 5" wide.....I wonder how wide the Vee is across the gap? I really only need to bend this one piece for now to prove the design. I may just have the laser cutter bend everything else after they cut it.