R1 Carbs (lots of pics)

[DADZSUN]

I'm just going to run mine a set timing for now. Later Tap each runner, put them into a vac block. and then attach to dizzy. Ez to do.

 

I requested for my Bogg manifold to come with a vac nipple on the one runner for my dizzy. I'm not sure if it's enough (ie: should it be balanced amongst all 4 runners) but better than nothing I figure.

 

With regards to my project, yesterday I managed to setup a bike cable to the car's throttle linkage, works quite well actually. Biggest issue was getting the carb's reduced pull to match the 510's longer pedal/rod throw.

 

Will post pictures/vids end of week.

[datzenmike]

The dizzy doesn't draw away any vacuum so one cylinder will be plenty. Having all four will smooth out or average the pulses.

[VintageRice]

I requested for my Bogg manifold to come with a vac nipple on the one runner for my dizzy. I'm not sure if it's enough (ie: should it be balanced amongst all 4 runners) but better than nothing I figure.

 

With regards to my project, yesterday I managed to setup a bike cable to the car's throttle linkage, works quite well actually. Biggest issue was getting the carb's reduced pull to match the 510's longer pedal/rod throw.

 

Will post pictures/vids end of week.

 

Looking forward to seeing pics.

I was contemplating the same.........using the stock R1 cable and using the factory 510 linkage that bolts to the firewall to pull the cable. My other option was finding a longer cable and just attaching it lower on the pedal lever. Therefore pulling the cable at a slower rate.

[hobojobo]

The guy said he threw away the jig to make the r1 carb manifolds... I really wanted one

[Drummerboy4as]

The guy said he threw away the jig to make the r1 carb manifolds... I really wanted one

 

Can anyone confirm or deny this?? I'd like to go with this setup on my L20.

 

Or maybe someone has access to a laser jet, a tig welder and lots of free time :D

 

I think Mr Mklotz could use a new project

[VintageRice]

Do what I'm doing. Get a flange cut. Cut tubing to fit. Tack it together. Then take it to your favorite tig welding friend to have it finish welded to look pretty. (I can only do this cause I'm building my intake from mild steel)

 

My flanges should be in the mail within minutes!! Waiting for the mail lady as I type!! So excited!

[datzenmike]

Waiting for the male lady as I type!! So excited!

 

fixed

 

 

Steel would be easier to work with for the average guy.

[Drummerboy4as]

Do what I'm doing. Get a flange cut. Cut tubing to fit. Tack it together. Then take it to your favorite tig welding friend to have it finish welded to look pretty. (I can only do this cause I'm building my intake from mild steel)

 

My flanges should be in the mail within minutes!! Waiting for the mail lady as I type!! So excited!

 

Do you have a source for the flange? Or is it a one off piece?

[VintageRice]

I drew up the CAD file for the flanges. My first time CAD drawing actually.(by far harder than getting them cut) Now the guy has the file so I can give you his email and it'll cost you whatever he charges. But he charged me around $35 for the intake flange and $35 for both exhaust flanges. Not sure if he'd charge more or less but pretty close I'd imagine. Let me know if you want some cut and I'll let him know. Or I can give you his email. Super nice guy. Names Jeff Out of Castle Rock, wa www.jmmetalfab.com

 

 

Heres the flanges. Not waterjet perfect. But for $35 a little grinding to clean them up and they'll work GREAT !!

 

The bolt holes are a little to big but that would be my only complaint. And most likely my fault. But plasma isn't perfect by any means. Overall a great end result though.

 

 

 

Heres what the cad files looked like.

 

 

[DADZSUN]

Here's a quick clip of the temporary throttle linkage I hacked up. It works quite well so the plan is to get something welded up so the cable stop is angled a little better as is the idle control cable (tie-wrapped on top). Note that I added a secondary spring to keep the throttle tight since the carbs spring isn't quite strong enough.

 

I'm still missing windshields (to be installed tomorrow) but I did manage to run the car up and down a quiet local road and put a few 60 MPH loads into the engine (pretty breezy inside the car!). First impression is how responsive the car is, much better - although I was previously running a tired OEM carb. The tires want to spin a lot more just off idle which is fun. No dieseling when turned off which is also nice. Plugs were a nice light tan color after that 10 min stint.

 

hobojobo - are you referring to the oringial post? Is so, yes I believe they did toss their jigg. The contact I provided, Steve Bogg (boggbrothersltd@btconnect.com) is in the business of making R1 manifolds. They insinuated that they plan to keep the jig for future builds. Also, as previously mentioned they still have my donor manifold.

 

The plan now is to get a choke cable installed and air filters. I did notice is that there's NOT a lot of room from the carbs to the hood, 3" tops. I will suggest to Steve to have a little less kink in the manifold so that the floats are a little more horizontal and allow room for individual cone filters.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGD12NV6nSM&feature=youtu.be

[VintageRice]

Looks good! I may have to try using that factory linkage. Neat setup.

[Zendar]

DADZSUN, could you measure the distance between the valve cover and furthest part of the carbs?

I've had the carbs for some time now and now that you got the manifold from bogg bros, I'm thinking of buying one also. My only concern is the clearance with the brake booster / master cylinder on a 620.

[Cuts metal like mad]

Love seeing people finally doing this.

[Zendar]

zuum510, I bought the carbs when you did your swap lol :P, so I've had them for some time now haha

[DADZSUN]

DADZSUN, could you measure the distance between the valve cover and furthest part of the carbs?

I've had the carbs for some time now and now that you got the manifold from bogg bros, I'm thinking of buying one also. My only concern is the clearance with the brake booster / master cylinder on a 620.

 

10" from the edge of the valve cover to the furthest edge of the carbs. 6 1/4" from the driver's shock tower to the start of the carbs.

 

Let me know if you need anything else.

[DADZSUN]

I had a chance to run the car for a good 30 min today. Highway, cruising etc. Everything appears to be working well on the carbs.

 

I'd like to get the throttle cable action a little smoother but that should be easy with a re-engineered linkage.

 

The plugs have gone from a light cream coffee color to a light rust.

[DADZSUN]

Love seeing people finally doing this.

 

Honestly, it's a little shocking how easy all of this was.

 

I literally dismantled and clean the carbs - add 1.6mm jets, hooked up the manifold (new gasket), turn the idle misture 3 3/4 turns out, car started right away, sych the carbs ( maybe 2 minutes with the STE Synchrometer) and done!

 

Being new to the carbs scene, I though it would make more sense to spend my time learning about a simpler/modern setup rather than the Webers that came with my car. I'm glad I came across your thread in the first place - thanks for sharing! :thumbup:

 

Edit: corrected a mis-type in the jet sizing from 1.8 -> 1.6mm

[pants]

What did you do about the vaccuum advance?

[Drummerboy4as]

Speaking of vacuum, I was thinking about this the other day. If we're worried about tapping into the manifold or getting vacuum pulses or whatever, what about using an eductor tube in the exhaust?

 

You could put it back from the collector so there would be a constant stream of gases flowing by, could use an AN fitting of some sort and use steel braided line (or something heat resistant) to some sort of vacuum manifold to distribute the vacuum to your brake booster/vac advance/auto tranny etc

 

Is it more work? Definitely. BUT, I think it would be a much cleaner and more reliable setup.

 

What's an eductor tube you say? It's a tube with a 45* angle cut on the end. You position the longer end toward the flow of the exhaust. The flowing air past the "scoop" of the pipe creates a vacuum. Conversely if you had the scoop facing toward the flow you would have pressure in the line, not vacuum.

[datzenmike]

 

I literally dismantled and clean the carbs - add 1.8mm jets, hooked up the manifold (new gasket), turn the idle misture 3 3/4 turns out, car started right away, sych the carbs ( maybe 2 minutes with the STE Synchrometer) and done!

 

 

 

1.8mm jets, I guess I missed... what size motor? L16???

[DADZSUN]

Sorry, I meant 1.6mm, not 1.8mm. I'm running a stock L16. However, I did purchase a set of 1.8mm to potentially use on my L20 currently mounted to my engine stand.

 

As for vacuum advance, I had the one runner closest to the rad tapped. Not ideal because of pulses but I thought that it becomes a moot point if/when I switch to a matchbox dizzy.

 

Out of curiosity (and still a noobie when it comes to carb design and operation), I've read about the Constant Velocity and 'SU' traits of the R1 carbs... does that not mean it somehow naturally smoothes out those vacuum pulses compared to a DCOE Weber?

[datzenmike]

On a constant velocity carb there is a throttle plate close to the intake with a piston (could be any shape) that blocks the bore ahead of it. Manifold vacuum lifts the piston to let in more air as the engine revs up. Thus the air speed across the venturi that draws in fuel remains constant. It's a good design.

[DADZSUN]

Yes, after posting my question, I decided to get off my @$$ and do a little reading. I found this site to have the quick yet simple explanation I was looking for: http://www.hondanigh....net/carb01.htm . It also provided me with an explanation to the purpose of the needle, effectively a variable jetting plug to provide dynamic jetting based on air volume.

 

So it appears as though CV is really a mechanism to provide constant intake velocity for all rev/throttle ranges. However, it will not magically smooth/buffer the intake pulses into one steady source of vacuum.

[datsunfreak]

Point of clarification (if I am reading some of these posts correctly):

 

The vacuum advance on a distributor should not be plumbed directly to the intake manifold, as I think some have hinted. This will mean the distributor vacuum advance will be advanced all the time, even at idle (not good). The stock set-up has the vacuum advance signal being received from just in front of the throttle blade, so at idle there's no vacuum advance, and it ramps up as the throttle is opened.

 

I think you'd be better off to run no vacuum advance at all than to plumb it directly to the intake manifold.

 

Now if you meant vacuum signal for the brake booster, yes that needs to be plumbed to the intake so it has vacuum at all times.

[VintageRice]

Point of clarification (if I am reading some of these posts correctly):

 

The vacuum advance on a distributor should not be plumbed directly to the intake manifold, as I think some have hinted. This will mean the distributor vacuum advance will be advanced all the time, even at idle (not good). The stock set-up has the vacuum advance signal being received from just in front of the throttle blade, so at idle there's no vacuum advance, and it ramps up as the throttle is opened.

 

I think you'd be better off to run no vacuum advance at all than to plumb it directly to the intake manifold.

 

Now if you meant vacuum signal for the brake booster, yes that needs to be plumbed to the intake so it has vacuum at all times.

 

100% right. I was wrong earlier about plumbing it right to the runners. Good call!