R1 Carbs (lots of pics)

[datzenmike]

I would love to try this on a 2 liter.

[Jester]

Ya, or a 2.3

[pope_face]

I'd be happy to have this on a 1.6L... I'm still waiting to find the right (read: cheap) set though. I still need my engine though... Once I get that, I might be a little more excited about getting this set up.

[DADZSUN]

I've wanted to add to this discussion for quite some time, but wanted to make sure I got the basics sorted out and got the car running first.

 

I'm quite pleased with how easily the car fired right up. :-)

 

Bogg Brothers manifold, 1.6 jets (OEM 1.6L engine), 3 3/4 turns out on the idle mixture screws.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRxSImfd0bA&feature=channel

[Stupid_fast]

Hey, how much was that manifold, and can you have another one made and shipped?

 

Everyone I've talked to has said either they cant make it for me, or its going to be ridiculously expensive.

Thanks.

[datzenmike]

Geez what's the idle set at? Sounds like fast idle with choke on.

[Z chopper]

hmmm bogg brothers web site seems to be down

[VintageRice]

I've wanted to add to this discussion for quite some time, but wanted to make sure I got the basics sorted out and got the car running first.

 

I'm quite pleased with how easily the car fired right up. :-)

 

Bogg Brothers manifold, 1.6 jets (OEM 1.6L engine), 3 3/4 turns out on the idle mixture screws.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRxSImfd0bA&feature=channel

 

Nice mang! I'm working on drawing up my intake flange for my R1 carbed KA24e right now in a CAD program. Going to get it cut soon. Then I can build my manifold and get er runnin!!

 

Now, we need a 0-60 video. Do it. do it now.

 

Was the choke on in that video? If not, turn down the idle. Did you leave the stock bike jetting for the idle jets????

[VintageRice]

Vintage: I suspect that post was partially directed to me as well... I've done some research, and I guess I answered my own question in that post regarding bore sizes. I wasn't sure about using smaller carbs with individual runners, but looking at the bore sizes of the Datsun carbs (like the Weber), it makes sense that it won't work.

 

I could use multiple, smaller carbs on an intake plenum, instead of individual carbs per cylinder, but I don't think there's be any benefit over running single or dual sidedrafts, and the cost would be comparable to the R1 carbs anyway.

 

However, I will contribute to the thread by posting this:

 

Complete Guide To Installing R1 Carbs On A Car..

 

It's a PDF file I found by searching "R1 carbs on car throttle position sensor"... I think it's the first link. It looks pretty complete to me... A list of what you need, how to install the carbs, tuning, teardown and rebuild, everything including pictures. It even gives suggestions on jets.

 

And thanks VintageRice... If you hadn't called me out on it, I probably would've asked about the TPS instead of searching, and never would've found the PDF, and would still be asking daft questions... :rolleyes:

 

 

Awesome link man, thanks a bunch!!

 

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

[jesusno2]

I've wanted to add to this discussion for quite some time, but wanted to make sure I got the basics sorted out and got the car running first.

 

I'm quite pleased with how easily the car fired right up. :-)

 

Bogg Brothers manifold, 1.6 jets (OEM 1.6L engine), 3 3/4 turns out on the idle mixture screws.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRxSImfd0bA&feature=channel

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds quite lean to me. I bet it had a terrible hesitation off idle.

[DADZSUN]

That was an initial video with very little tuning. I've since dropped the idle and synced the carbs which has really smoothed things out, including that carb closest to the rad with a cough.

 

He chock was not on in that video.

 

I'll forward Steve Bogg's email tonight along with more details.

 

Price for the carbs was their standard $200 pounds if i recall.

[DADZSUN]

OK, I've had a chance to upload a newer video (below). Lower and smoother idle, carbs are synched etc...

 

I can't get any more effective tuning/videos until a replacement top hat for my front coilover and new windsheild seals (~ 2 weeks).

 

To answer a few questions:

1. 1.6 jets replaced the stock jets. This size is for a stock 1.6L engine. There are more tuning options to richen the mix if required (adjusting the needle circlip) and even drill out the jet some more. These jets are apparently the same as Weber DGV jets
    
   
2. The man you want to contact is Steve Bogg (boggbrothersltd@btconnect.com). He's pretty good about replying to his email. I've sent an OEM manifold to him and he's made a jig for additional future builds. He also still has the original manifold.
    
   
3. Manifold cost is £200, jets are £10 for 4, shipping to me in Canada was expensive £60. Their airfilter is £100 and the carb cable kit is £10 I believe (I don't have either but would like to eventually).
    
   
4. I got my carbs for a little over $100 USD. Try to get the 'joins' (connector hoses) and clamps with your purchase. You'll need them.
    
   
5. I'm still in the discovery phase, I have no throttle/chock cables hooked up yet but have a few ideas and will share my success/failure when I get the time and parts.
   

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcZcX_ElsBw&feature=youtu.be

 

 

Below is some helpful info on the parts of the carbs. Some of this may be obvious for you but I wanted to get everything documented just to be sure:

 

Picture #1 (below)

• Pink circles are the idle mixture screws. If covered (mine were, see yellow circles in picture below), get a 3mm drill and enlarge the hole then screw a self tapping screw into it and with mole grips firmly on the screw tap the grips with a hammer and the plug will come right out exposing the screws. Screw them all the way in and then 3 3/4 turns out.
  
• Red circles are vents for the diaphragms and can be left as they are.
  
• Yellow circles are float bowl vents and must be left open
  
• Green circles are actually for running water through the carbs to prevent icing
  
• Orange circles is throttle and bracket
  
• Blue circle is the chock and bracket
  

 

 

Picture #2 (below)

• Red circle is the pilot jet and doesn’t need drilling or enlarging just make sure you can see daylight through it.
  
• Purple circle is the ‘flexi tickover adjuster’, basically a screw which manipulates the master carb.
  
• Orange circles individual throttle adjustment screws. The three other carbs are controlled by the master carb but can be individually adjusted for synching
  
• Green circle is the fuel
  
• Turquoise circle (beside the red circle) is the DVG jet, basically the main jet.
  

[VintageRice]

Very nice. Can't WAIT o hear mine fire up!!!

 

any idea's on a baseline main jet sizing for a 2.4L ? ?

 

If a 1.6L gets a 1.6 but a l20b gets a 1.8.....then what does a 2.4 get?

[Stupid_fast]

@VintageRice, Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but dont the DGV jets stop at a 2.00? If so you can just get a ton of spare DGV jets and some 2.10, 2.20, 2.30 drill bits and widen out those jets for the larger engine.

[Tristin]

@VintageRice, Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but dont the DGV jets stop at a 2.00? If so you can just get a ton of spare DGV jets and some 2.10, 2.20, 2.30 drill bits and widen out those jets for the larger engine.

 

Well not knowing if there is some crazy formula to figure out jet size, you can use simple math. Using the numbers provided, a 2.4L would require 2.0 size jets. Now there could be a non-linear function of air/fuel consumption warranting larger ones, but if its linear than 2.0 is all thats needed.

[VintageRice]

Well not knowing if there is some crazy formula to figure out jet size, you can use simple math. Using the numbers provided, a 2.4L would require 2.0 size jets. Now there could be a non-linear function of air/fuel consumption warranting larger ones, but if its linear than 2.0 is all thats needed.

 

 

Sure, lets go with that. :)

 

Could I just find out what a DCOE would be jetted at when bolted to a KA then use that? Or would DCOE jetting be different than the R1 sizing because of being CV carbs vs old skool pumper carbs??

[Z chopper]

I was about to say the same as tristan

 

 

If a 1.6L gets a 1.6 and a l20b gets a 1.8.....then a 2.4 gets a 2.0 going up .2 jet size for every .4L after 1.6

[Tristin]

I was about to say the same as tristan

 

 

If a 1.6L gets a 1.6 and a l20b gets a 1.8.....then a 2.4 gets a 2.0 going up .2 jet size for every .4L after 1.6

 

Yep, thats the simple math. But thats only if its linear. I only know math and not carb specifications and operations. For all I know, its a non-linear increase and its a larger jet than 2.0 (which I dont even know if those exist because once again I know nothing about carb parts). If you do this, please let us know which sizes work for your applications. Im contemplating this for carbs and building my own manifold.

[spudly13]

So i came accross this thread and read through the whole thing, i hop on ebay looking for the late 90s early 2000 r1 carbs, and is it just me or has the price jumped on those quite a bit since this was origanally posted in 08-09? im seeing anything from 100 bucks for junk to 350 for good takeoffs

 

Am i looking in the right spot??

[Z chopper]

does your local PnP have a motorcycle section?? But ya I saw the same thing on Ebay

[VintageRice]

Yeah, when I started looking for mine last summer, I noticed the prices were high. (Dam Vw kids.....)

 

They have definitely grown in popularity in the last few years.

 

I got mine off CL for under one bill.

 

Keep searching CL every day. DO NOT go to bent bike. They call it that because you get BENT over.......$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

 

 

 

Little known secret.......I shouldn't even tell.............I'm a snowmobiler, It's my #1 passion. So I know a little about sleds. When Yamaha came out with their first 4 stroke sled in 2004 it had a R1 motor in it. It was called the RX1. Or as we called'em RXTon........ cause they were freekin HEAVY.

 

Either way, these sleds sported a R1 motor, without the gearbox. And the carbs from these sleds are identical to the bike carbs, only the float bowls aren't at and angle. They are normal, horizontal......

 

So actually these sled carbs are even better fitted for cars because you don't have to build your manifold at that crazy angle. (although now I'm beginning to learn that these carbs aren't as sensitive to angles as other carbs are...... but thats beside the point)

 

Long story short search ebay for RX1 carbs and see what you get. Might find a more affordable option............but you didnt hear it from me!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting side note. People boosted RX1's ALLLLL day long, and multiple companys make turbo kits for these carbed motors and run boost reliably. Interesting indeed.........

[Z chopper]

when did the R1 went from carbs to throttle body? I know it said something about it somewhere in the thread but can't find it now. So would it not make sense the yamaha RX1 snowmobiles also went throttle body the same year?

[Z chopper]

or instead of searching for Yamaha R1 carbs maybe search for Kawasaki KZ1000 carbs or Kawasaki ZX 1000 or 1100 carbs or Honda CBR 1000 carbs or Suzuki GS 1000 carbs. I actually noticed pricing on Kawasaki carbs to be the cheapest on ebay of the 4

[jesusno2]

fcr kehin carbs are one of the best expensive but man those are bad ass!

[Z chopper]

I totally agree jesusno2 but they can be more $$ than many ratsun members paid for there cars