610 auto to manual swap???

[sliding_creep]

i know this is a dumb question buuut, has anyone done the auto to 4-speed shuffle in a 610? and if so, what flywheel needs to be used and what yoke for the driveshaft needs to be used? i've converted many a mopar, no datsuns, but before i begin i'd like to see what the experienced had to say on the matter. thanks in advance!

 

cheers

[datzenmike]

Well you don't say what year so if it's a '73 you will need any 5 bolt L series flywheel to fit your L18. If it's '74-'76 you'll need to look for any 6 bolt L or Z flywheel. The 5 bolt only uses a 200mm clutch but depending on the 6 bolt you could be using a 200mm, 225mm and even 240mm but not likely you'll want one that big.

 

Your 610 should have a long tail auto, so a long tail 4 or 5 speed should fit without modifying the drive shaft length. Measure your automatic tranny from the front where it bolts to the engine... to the back where the drive shaft joins. If you measure just over 31.3" any F4W71B or FS5W71B long tail should fit. I heartily recommend a 5spd but a 4 you can probably get for free to get you going and slip a 5spd in later when you find one.

 

That's the easy part. You will need a set of brake and clutch pedals. I don't think the clutch pedal will fit beside the larger auto brake pedal... maybe. You will need a hydraulic clutch master and slave cylinder and a hard line between them. There may be a hole in the firewall for the master with a cover on it ... we hope. If not, you will have to drill one out that lines up with the clutch pedal push rod.

 

The shifter hole may need re-locating slightly in the floor and you will need to install a pilot bushing, $3 at Nissan, into the back end of the crank shaft as automatic motors won't have one. Buy a new clutch and pp that matches the mounting bolt pattern on the flywheel you get. Remember that the flywheel determines the clutch diameter that can be bolted to it. Buy a new release bearing and use the proper housing or collar the holds it. It's matched to the PP diameter. You may have to fabricate a new rear tranny mount for whatever you get. Connect up the reverse lights to the standard.

 

Your 610 auto may have a lower ratio (3.889) in it than a standard (3.70) equipped car. Lower gears will give it more performance so that is fine, but the new tranny will have a speedometer cog for a different rear ratio and will read wrong. To fix it, remove the cog from the auto and exchange it with the one in the standard. The speedo cog is always matched to the rear end ratio.

 

That's all for now, any questions?

[zerow]

I've been the donor for a 5 speed to another 610. Jaimesix got my 5 speed from my parts car. I pulled all the parts for the swap, so here goes:

 

1) Pedals from a 4 speed or 5 speed donor car. 610s have the correct bracket under the dash, no need to unbolt the entire assembly. The brake pedal is too wide to have both the clutch pedal and retain the old brake. And it simply looks nicer to have the matched pair.

 

2) Clutch Master Cylinder hardline and Slave Cylinder. There is a plate on all 610s, no problems there. My sedan auto had the plate, and the donor car obviously had the Master Cylinder. The harline is easy to remove at either end, but difficult to negotiate out of the car near the firewall. There will be difficulty. If you have taken 10 minutes and it still won't come out of the car, be patient, it took me nearly 20!

 

3) Correct Flywheel. 5 bolt for L-16, L-18, 6 bolt for L-20B. When you remove the flexplate, DO NOT FORGET TO REMOVE THE SPACER AT THE END OF THE CRANKSHAFT!!!!! It will not mount properly and you will cause problems later!

 

4) (Obvious) Transmission. Like datzenmike said, 4 speeds are a dime a dozen. 5 speeds, well, not so much. I say hold out for the 5, the labor alone will pay for itself. And it allows you plenty of time to get the parts together.

 

5) Transmission X-Member. I swapped between the donor car and the auto I was receiving, but I recall that both looked the same. If in doubt, I *think* you could flip the x-member and that works (anyone can interject their experience here)

 

6) Driveshaft. I recall the one from the donor looking like it was "original" not fabricated in a shop. Jaimesix could get some measurements and help you out, to look for a specific driveshaft for this swap.

 

Hope this all helps. I could do my best to remember, should you have questions, I will do my best to help.

[sliding_creep]

sorry forgot to mention it's a 74' with the L20. i've been digging around to find any info on interchangeability and came up with some info and it's nowhere even close to what i figured most of you already knew.

 

i already have all the pedal goods including both cylinders as well as the hard line and soft line to the slave, brackets and all hardware (came from a 710 donor at a wrecker that a few good ratsun people pointed out!), i've fabbed plenty of mounts for other stuff so's i'm good with the trans brace too. i'll look at yokes/splines/driveshaft/lengths once i get a trans in my possession as i assume there's going to be some measuring, trial and error. my biggest concern was fitment of flywheels as i read there was even differences in just the 6-hole ones.

 

i really wasn't lookin' to go 5-speed as i'm just keepin' it movable under it's own power till i get around to the full upgrade swap in powerplants this next year. i also currently put out a beggar's post in the wanted section for a usable manual, so we'll see what pops up and i'll keep my fingers crossed!

 

once again, thank you so much for the immediate responses! i'm effin' bonkers over my 610 and really want to keep it rollin' along.

 

BTW, how long do i hafta wait to buy a ratsun shirt? do i need to be missing fingers or teeth? cause i'm almost there, after this manual swap i should be pretty beat up:D

 

cheers

[zerow]

 

BTW, how long do i hafta wait to buy a ratsun shirt? do i need to be missing fingers or teeth? cause i'm almost there, after this manual swap i should be pretty beat up:D

 

cheers

 

As far as the flywheel is concerned, I *think* one from a L28 powered engine will work, as it is both L-series and 6 bolt. Anybody care to chime in...?

 

There's a shirt for all of the war I've been through with my Datsun...?

[datzenmike]

The L28 came in 225mm and 240mm size clutch size. I think you will find that they are lighter than the 4cyl ones in that size. Because it's a six cylinder with extra reciprocating weight the flywheel can be lighter. All six bolt L and Z flywheels will physically bolt up and work on either Z and L 4 and L six cylinder motor.

[sliding_creep]

The L28 came in 225mm and 240mm size clutch size. I think you will find that they are lighter than the 4cyl ones in that size. Because it's a six cylinder with extra reciprocating weight the flywheel can be lighter. All six bolt L and Z flywheels will physically bolt up and work on either Z and L 4 and L six cylinder motor.

 

AWESOME!!! i will now go forth to the local wreckers and descend upon the piles and piles of Zcars that i hoped would prove to be useful! so sad that all theez zeez are going to the crushers, i really like them and wish i could rescue them from their fate. thanks again for the abundant knowledge!

 

cheers

[datzenmike]

Any '77 and up Z car 5spd is what you want for your swap. You could get the tranny, clutch, pp, flywheel, slave and master cylinder... all from one car.

 

You could probably strike a deal for the tranny and get the other stuff thrown in. Or some of it anyway. You never know it may have a new clutch on it. I've done that and when they whine about it, I say the tranny's no good to me without.... blah, blah. They usually overcharge anyway so all I'm getting is my money's worth and if I don't buy it it just goes to waste so they cave in and let me have it.

 

The Z car starters and fuel pumps will fit you L20B too

 

Here's how to tell what size clutch fits the flywheel:

 

240mm (from a Z24 motor 720 truck)

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/datzenmike/flywheel240mmthree2Large.jpg[/img]"]

 

This is what I mean about being lighter. The back side of the flywheel is cast with a hollowed out section:

 

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/datzenmike/flywheel240mmthreeLarge.jpg[/img]"]

 

Some flywheels are solid on the back and weigh about 29lbs. One like this is about 21lbs.

Edited November 23, 2008 by datzenmike

[LenRobertson]

Also, there are different throwout bearing sleeves. I think the rule is to use the sleeve that came with the clutch you use. So if you use a different clutch than the one originally with the tranny you use, you may have to change sleeves. This chart shows different 225mm clutch sleeves:

http://datsun510.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=698

Anyone remember more about this than I do?

 

Len

[sliding_creep]

Any '77 and up Z car 5spd is what you want for your swap. You could get the tranny, clutch, pp, flywheel, slave and master cylinder... all from one car.

 

WHOA!!! i can actually put a 5-speed in without looking for the holy grail of the B210GSX or 200sx standard??? Z stuff fits :eek: orientation/yoke/length/tailshaft/output without cutting or major surgery?

 

i was under the misconception from several sources, literature and techs, that interchangeability for the Z to 610 was slim and none. i knew i shoulda joined ratsun a loooong time ago! in this case, i should go to a 5 and have some fun with this lump till it pops then do the CA18DET switcheroo. thanks again!

 

cheers

[datzenmike]

Measure your tranny length, according to my notes it should be a long tail F4W63L 4spd. IF it is 31.5" long then the 280Z tranny will fit and you shouldn't have to shorten the drive shaft. Measure it.

 

Here are the two possible lengths. I'm hoping that you have the long one in the back.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/datzenmike/trans4speedlongandshort-1.jpg[/img]"]

Edited November 23, 2008 by datzenmike

[bonvo]

sliding creep learn from my mistake get a z car tranny i got the 200sx dogleg in mine the crossmember worked perfect no mods there but the 610 uses the long tranny just like the z cars i had to lengthen my driveline to make it work a non turbo zx will be a great donor for this little project of yours

 

william as for flipping the x member how would it let the exhaust pass in the stock location? if you flip it upside down the hump in the xmember is facing the wrong way and if you flip it side to side not only will that do you no good but it will also not have the hump at all and the exhaust will hit

 

just figured i would share what i learned while doing a 5 speed swap in my 610 good luck sliding creep

[zerow]

 

william as for flipping the x member how would it let the exhaust pass in the stock location? if you flip it upside down the hump in the xmember is facing the wrong way and if you flip it side to side not only will that do you no good but it will also not have the hump at all and the exhaust will hit

 

Not end over end, rotate about the center axis (3 o'clock to 9 o'clock) as the auto mount has the "hump" slightly off center.

[bonvo]

does the auto x member look like this?

 

if so it should just bolt right up

[zerow]

does the auto x member look like this?

 

if so it should just bolt right up

 

I will get a pic of my x-member. It appears different, even so much that it looks different than the one I swapped to jaimesix, wierd...

[sliding_creep]

i have acquired several transmissions and have discovered that the 1977 and up 280z non-turbo 4-speed and 5-speed are the ones to go with for this particular swap or upgrade. the truck trans is waaaay to short as are the 200sx dog-leg boxes. now with the four different transes i am able to understand the interchange reasoning datsun had. it's been nice thrashin' at the wreckers again like in the good ol' days:D the pedals and lines are all in the car now. i'm waiting on a clutch kit and working on a good trans mount (polyeurethane mebee) and i'll be 5 geared in january! thanks for all the help guys!!!

 

cheers

[datzenmike]

... the truck trans is waaaay to short as are the 200sx dog-leg boxes. .

 

cheers

 

The only short 620 box was the '72.5-'73 4spd. The '74-'79 4spd and '77-'79 5spd are all the same length as the '77-'83 280 z/zx 5spd, at 31.5". There were no short 5spds for these years.

 

There may have been a short used in the '80 720 2wd with the L series engine.

[bonvo]

i have acquired several transmissions and have discovered that the 1977 and up 280z non-turbo 4-speed and 5-speed are the ones to go with for this particular swap or upgrade. the truck trans is waaaay to short as are the 200sx dog-leg boxes. now with the four different transes i am able to understand the interchange reasoning datsun had. it's been nice thrashin' at the wreckers again like in the good ol' days:D the pedals and lines are all in the car now. i'm waiting on a clutch kit and working on a good trans mount (polyeurethane mebee) and i'll be 5 geared in january! thanks for all the help guys!!!

 

cheers

 

 

good to hear you will be up and running soon man

[sliding_creep]

The only short 620 box was the '72.5-'73 4spd. The '74-'79 4spd and '77-'79 5spd are all the same length as the '77-'83 280 z/zx 5spd, at 31.5". There were no short 5spds for these years.

 

There may have been a short used in the '80 720 2wd with the L series engine.

 

once again i am humbled. one of the 4-speeds came out of a 510 and the other out of a Z. the dogleg came out of a clapped out 210/200sx and the trans i chose to go with, is of your (DATZENMIKE) recommendation being a 1981 non-turbo Z. the all foreign yard in fontana is an exceptional hands-on school! i even acquired the lighter hollow cast flywheel in great condition from that 81' car. i am holding on to the other transes though as i am planning on picking up another cool auto-car on the cheap and do the swap. pretty easy with all the factory provisions, kinda like a vestigial tail that still proved to be quite useful:blink: thanks again!

 

cheers

[zerow]

the all foreign yard in fontana is an exceptional hands-on school!

 

Yes, it is!

[BigBlack620]

Very odd ball question ... Has anyone used the clutch hardware (clutch MC hard line, slave cylinder, etc.) from a 620 for a auto to manual swap in a 510/'610'? I'm using a L18 and 4-speed trans (F4W71B) ... I can't possibly be the only one to ever consider this

[bananahamuck]

i used whatever i had laying around to switch from auto to manual, 620 parts included, the parts will fit ,, you might have to test fit and adjust a few times but the parts don`t know what they are off of.

 

The clutch hardline on a 620 is about 2 feet longer and a helluva lot bendy-er than a 510 one but i ran it for awhile like that ( because it was all i had) but it was wrapped all up in the firewall and shit... You can buy new hardline at most autoparts stores and put the fittings off a Datsun on both ends and bend it yourself ,, easy peesy

 

 

Pictures of my clutch hardline Beta version..

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/30398-on-advice-from-counsel-name-withheld-till-further-notice/page-2

 

 

:D

[BigBlack620]

thank man for the reassurance, I'll be sure to put it in my thread to for future rats .. hopefully I get to start on this Friday morning .... I pulled the engine an tranny out of my 620 with the speedo on ... should I use the 620 speedo or the attach the speedo from the 610 (coupe) ... I think the rear diff is 3.8 on the coupe, and the 620 I believe is 3.7, don't know If that difference will cause problems or not

[datzenmike]

Automatic and standard speedometer drive pinions are different and cannot be swapped. (the 620 has a 4.375 differential ratio)

[revokesss]

Im sorry to have to revive an old thread like this but im looking into purchasing an auto 610 that Im thinking of coverting into a 5 speed. The thing is that this 610 is and early 1800 model. Are there any differences when it comes to swaping the auto to a manual?