Blinkers not working but blinking power coming out of the flasher

[Mike Phillips]

After exhausting my technical electrical know-how I opted to take my Datsun to a very good mechanic as well as good friend of mine and let him poke around and what he found out was there is power going to the blinker light assembly in the steering column but no power coming out of it and that's where the problem lies.

 

So I'm going to dismantle, clean and inspect the assembly and see if there's anything visible wrong, if not then I'll look into getting a replacement.

 

There's a 1975 Datsun truck in the local wrecking yard with the blinker assembly in it but I'm not too sure replacing a 34 year old blinker assembly with a 33 year old blinker assemble is worth it over time.

 

:)

[Mike Phillips]

***Update***

 

I have a new turn light assembly to install but I have not removed the steering wheel and installed it yet. Instead, over the weekend I got a couple of turn light Assembly wires/components out of Datsun trucks in the local wrecking yard.

 

2 of these components specifically...

 

I cleaned them, squirted a little WD-40 into the switch part and then worked it and then blew it out with air. Next I tried installing both of these and then testing for blinkers and still no blinkers.

 

I read the wiring diagram for my truck found here and I apologize that I'm not super great at reading these...

 

Wiring diagram for the blinker light assembly

 

 

That said, I took my electrical tester and tested the prongs in the plug for this component with the key off and in the run position, (with the engine running), and so far there is no power coming out of any of the 4 prongs inside this plug that connects to the component I've been swapping out.

 

This plug that goes to the blinker assembly in the steering column

 

So in trying to trouble shoot the root cause of the problem either all 3 wiring components I've tried, the original and the two I pulled out of wrecked trucks are all bad or it's something else.

 

The horn works

Both the bright and dim headlights work

The Emergency Flasher lights work

 

So I'm getting power via these wires/components to the blinker assembly.

 

Question:

 

Is there supposed to be power coming out of any of these 6 prongs to power the blinkers?

 

(I can't tell from the wiring diagram)

 

Can someone either help me with the wiring diagram or can someone go out with an electrical test and test their plug and verify if there should be power coming out of this plug on it's way to the blinker assemble and if so, which lead?

 

Should there be power coming out of any of these leads/prongs?

 

 

Or is power for the blinkers supplied by the power wire that powers the horn or one of the other electrical components?

 

Double Ugh...

 

:)

 

Besides the blinker issue, Lil Blue is running and driving pretty good...

 

 

She's come a long way since I drug her home from Vega with a blown engine...

 

:D

[moparvwfreak]

looking over the diagram, 74 automatic, the green wire should have power with the key on. if not start tracing the wire. at the fuse box it is a whiteblue wire. that should have power with the key on. i am good at reading diagrams. and these are MUCH easier than the ones for a 93+ VW.

[Mike Phillips]

looking over the diagram, 74 automatic, the green wire should have power with the key on. if not start tracing the wire. at the fuse box it is a whiteblue wire. that should have power with the key on. i am good at reading diagrams. and these are MUCH easier than the ones for a 93+ VW.

 

All contacts on the fuse box have power.

 

Nothing coming into the plug.

 

I'll try to trace the wire but it disappears into the wiring harness.

 

I do have the dash fairly unbolted and gutted at this time so that might help...

 

Thanks!

 

:)

[Mike Phillips]

looking over the diagram, 74 automatic, the green wire should have power with the key on.

 

If I can't trace the problem, couuld I jerry-rig a postive power wire to a toggle switch, add an in-line fuse and graft it into the green wire?

 

:confused:

[moparvwfreak]

the dash is REALLY easy to take out. i would pull it so you ahve room to work and see the harness. the wire that supplies power at teh box changes color a couple times according to the diagram. i would also check for power at terminal 8 at the dash plug. it should be a yellowred wire. the same wire also feed power to the kickdown switch. then changes color BACK to a whiteblue wire going through to the engine compartment. it splits off and one way goes to the floor harness and the other goes to the voltage regulator pin HG? the floor harness goes to teh inhibitor switch and eventually runs into the reverse lights i hope this helps a little more.

 

 

as for rigging in a powered toggle switch i am not sure. maybe. i am thinking though that if you check the power through the system you might find the break. i am begining to think it is right at the connection in teh main harness to the green wire for the signals.

Edited November 26, 2008 by moparvwfreak

[Mike Phillips]

the green wire should have power with the key on.

 

Just tested this wire for power and it's dead.

 

The LG or Light Green wire next to it, when I unplugged it and poked my tester probe into it showed to have weak power. Forget where the key was at the time but once when I poked my tester probe into it the horn honked?

 

 

 

According to the wire diagram this is the power into to what's called the Flash in the turn signal assembly just below the steering wheel.

 

 

 

 

So all I have to do is trace this wire to where the power coming in stops coming in?

 

Okay, I can do this...

 

:)

[Mike Phillips]

the dash is REALLY easy to take out. i would pull it so you have room to work and see the harness.

 

Taking out is usually the easy part, getting it to fit back in and fit back in good is usually the hard part.

 

the wire that supplies power at the box changes color a couple times according to the diagram. i would also check for power at terminal 8 at the dash plug.

 

Dumb question, where's terminal 8? The plug I posted a picture of has 8 terminals so it must be something else?

 

it should be a yellowred wire. the same wire also feed power to the kickdown switch. then changes color BACK to a whiteblue wire going through to the engine compartment. it splits off and one way goes to the floor harness and the other goes to the voltage regulator pin HG?

 

New observation.

 

I installed a brand spanking new battery fully charged. I have not tested the Alternator or the Voltage Regulator.

 

I have noticed over the course of the last week or so of driving the truck around the headlights getting dimmer and as of a few minutes ago the batter is dead. So my guess is either the alternator is bad or the voltage regulator is bad or both. I'll have them tested tomorrow.

 

If one or both are bad, could this keep the blinkers from working? As in could this be the reason the green power wire into "Flash" doesn't have power?

 

 

 

the floor harness goes to the inhibitor switch and eventually runs into the reverse lights i hope this helps a little more.

 

So far the backup lights have not been working. I haven't researched the reason why yet.

 

Ugh....

 

:)

[]2eDeYe]

Looks like it is a ground circuit. The symbol to the right of the rectangular list of lights is for ground.

 

Try testing with a 12V source instead of a ground (wire test light to your + battery post).

[DanielC]

You need the correct voltage for the turn signal flashers to work. too low a voltage, not enough current flows through the flasher to make it flash.

The horn relay only needs a little current to make it "click', and the horn relay grounds at the steering column, when you push the horn on the steering wheel. The test light can make your horn honk.

For your back up lights, power is applied to a red/black wire in the harness that goes to the back of the truck. There is a switch on the transmission that closes when the truck in reverse, and power then goes back to the taillight combo, on the red/black wire, for the lights.

Does your truck have an automatic transmission, or a manual?

[Mike Phillips]

Does your truck have an automatic transmission, or a manual?

 

It's an automatic. I installed a used tranny that was said to be a good working tranny by the previous owner and cleaned it up, installed new seals and gaskets and also thought I hooked all the wires up but I'll check when it's daylight and I can get under the truck.

 

:)

 

2eDeYe;100328']Looks like it is a ground circuit. The symbol to the right of the rectangular list of lights is for ground.

 

Try testing with a 12V source instead of a ground (wire test light to your + battery post).

 

Appreciate your help here, I have the battery being charged right now and she's charged up enough to drive to AutoZone. Thought I would let them test the alternator for me and if they can let them test the voltage regulator too.

 

They have a cheapie Duralast alternator in stock but will need to order me a voltage regulator. Might wait and see if NAPA can get me a better quality alternator and voltage regulator.

 

Should I make sure both of these components are good before I test to see if the ground is the problem?

 

:confused:

[moparvwfreak]

Taking out is usually the easy part, getting it to fit back in and fit back in good is usually the hard part.

i didn't have to many problems with it. but thats me. pulling and replacing dashes have been second nature for me.

 

Dumb question, where's terminal 8? The plug I posted a picture of has 8 terminals so it must be something else?

at the dash cluster. sorry i didn't specify.

 

 

New observation.

 

I installed a brand spanking new battery fully charged. I have not tested the Alternator or the Voltage Regulator.

 

I have noticed over the course of the last week or so of driving the truck around the headlights getting dimmer and as of a few minutes ago the batter is dead. So my guess is either the alternator is bad or the voltage regulator is bad or both. I'll have them tested tomorrow.

 

If one or both are bad, could this keep the blinkers from working? As in could this be the reason the green power wire into "Flash" doesn't have power?

could be. i know that on my pathfinder, when the power drops like its doing now, the turn signals work but REALLY slowly. so its possible that the alt or regulator is causing issues.

 

 

 

 

So far the backup lights have not been working. I haven't researched the reason why yet.

 

Ugh....

 

:)

 

taht could just be a bad switch.

 

 

relooking over the diagram, i may have read it wrong. the green that should have power goes to teh hazard switch. not the Turn signal switch. that would have been my mistake. :blush: sorry..... ok it looks like flash is run to teh flasher itsself. from there runs to teh hazard switch. i am REALLY thinking the hazard switch may be bad. when you had the switch apart did you see any sign of wear on the contacts??? thats all i can think of now.

[Mike Phillips]

i am REALLY thinking the hazard switch may be bad. when you had the switch apart did you see any sign of wear on the contacts??? thats all i can think of now.

 

The 4-way emergency flashers work and work well.

 

I'll star with ordering a new voltage regulator and a rebuilt alternator from NAPA first thing in the morning. Should have done this from the very start.

 

After those components are in then I'll see where the blinker system is at.

 

Been driving it in mostly day time and using the old fashioned arm for signaling and driving the Jimmy at night.

 

Thanks for your help, will update after the new components are in. My Navigator is crying so I guess I have to pay some attention to her...

 

[ppeters914]

I'll start with ordering a new voltage regulator and a rebuilt alternator from NAPA first thing in the morning. Should have done this from the very start.

 

Excellent time to think about upgrading to the Saturn alt.

 

Btw, I applaud your tenacity and logical troubleshooting. :thumbup:

[Cuts metal like mad]

the LG (light green) wire you posted about above, goes to horn, not flash in the schematic. Look again, I think it was the green wire in that schematic that went to the flash

[banzai510(hainz)]

Go to Radio shack and get one of those Battery/alternator testers 6$ that use the colored LEDS. Thats what I use in my 521 truck.

I cut the leads and shove the red wire behine the cig lighter and other blk wire just clip to grnd somewhere. NOw you can tell if your draining or charging the battery as you load it down.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=10162&TabID=1&C=SO&U=Strat330&doy=search&MenuName=BATTERY%20AND%20ALTERNATOR%20CHECKER

they even have ones that plug in the cig lighter

 

the Tester goes from like 11volts(undervolt,more like bad alter) to 15volts overvolt,(usaully bad reg).

 

You dont even need to pull out the alternator do do this ck.

 

 

what happens is during the day your not using enough current and the alternator is charging just enough. But at Night and with heater and or wipers on your draining the battery enough usually not to be able to start the next day.

 

 

also buy a solid state regulator. Not those Made in USA mechanical ones(THEY SUCK)

Edited November 26, 2008 by banzai510(hainz)

[Mike Phillips]

Go to Radio shack and get one of those Battery/alternator testers 6$ that use the colored LEDS. Thats what I use in my 521 truck.

 

I have one of these.

 

Placed leads on the batter and all lights turn on.

Placed negative to batter and positive to large post coming out of alternator and all alternator lights light up.

 

I think it's shot. :D (The tester)

 

Going to look into the Saturn Alternator Upgrade, need to find the water inlet I guess, might try to go the the wrecking yard today. Now which cars do I want to pull one of these things off of?

 

How about trucks? two of the wrecking yards around here have Datsun trucks, one has a couple of 1978's and the other has a 1975, and I think 1976, 1977 and maybe a 1978

 

:confused:

[ppeters914]

Going to look into the Saturn Alternator Upgrade, need to find the water inlet I guess, might try to go the the wrecking yard today. Now which cars do I want to pull one of these things off of?

See my answer in the Saturn alt into L-series thread.....

[Mike Phillips]

***Update***

 

Decided to stop troubleshooting the blinker problem until I've replaced the bad stock alternator with the IR Saturn Model and do away with the Voltage Regulator.

 

I did some creative wiring work and now have blinkers and the heater blower motor is now blowing at full speed? Before it was blowing weak as in low air output/low rpms.

 

Here's what I did, try not to laugh too much...

 

First, to give my a known good ground I rand a ground wire from the Negative Battery Post to a bolt under the dash. Scuffed the steel, the washer and cleaned the threads on the factory bolt.

 

Second, I installed pull knob switch under the dash and ran a positive wire from the positive battery post to one side of the switch.

 

 

 

From the other side of the switch I rand a in-line fuse, (15 amp), and grafted this wire with one of the factory wires going to the flasher to a female spade plug and plugged it into one of the male spade fittings on the Flasher.

 

 

 

Don't know why this works but now I have Blinkers. Also, nothing else with lights went wrong that is headlights, brake lights, emergency flasher lights all work as they did before this modification.

 

Here's what's changed that's strange, (at least to me).

 

1) Now the heater blower motor will run at full power if I pull the power heater fan switch all the way out. Before it ran full speed for a second or two when I first turned the key to start position but after that would only run on a very low speed.

 

2) After I start the car and pull the new power knob on, if I then turn the truck off, as in key to off position, the truck keeps running until I turn the power knob off.

 

Don't understand either of the above two changes? Want to take the truck on it's first long distance maiden voyage tomorrow.

 

:)

[Mike Phillips]

Just left Pick-A-Part after checking out some 90's series Saturn's for their Alternator. The Alternator is located close to the passenger side of the firewall under some other component that must be removed to remove the Alternator.

 

After this top component is removed the alternator looks like it's still going to be difficult to remove just because everything is squeezed so tightly together.

 

This particular P&P wants $45.00 plus tax plus a core or a they charge $5.00 for a core, that's about $50.00 for a used alternator that may take you an hour or so to remove not to mention a busted knuckle.

 

 

 

Saw some Z cars with the angled water outlets on the block and also the alternators on them, one had what looked like a recently installed rebuilt unit, it was all clean and shiny and had the tags on it. Think it was a 280ZX

 

Looked like the same shape as mine. I have a horrible cell phone camera but here's a pictures...

 

[Mike Phillips]

Okay...

 

Have the Saturn Alternator and have already had a GM pully installed. Went to Lowe's and guessed at the Turnbuckle size.

 

Have not went to the wrecking yard to get the factory wire clip off a Saturn yet but plan on doing that next but first I need to science out the water inlet.

 

The one on my L20B is angled so first I'll see if it will work, if not then when I was in the wrecking yard yesterday I saw a 280ZX and it had the water inlet on it but from memory it doesn't look like it was any more angled than the one I have?

 

From page 7 of this thread,

 

http://forum.ratsun.net/showthread.php?t=74&page=7

 

Mine isn't as agled as this one and the one I saw on the 280ZX didn't look this angled either?

 

 

[Mike Phillips]

Here's the water inlet currently on the L20B

 

 

 

Here's the alternator, it's for a 1995 Saturn SL1

 

 

 

Here's the plug receptacle, it has dielectric grease in it but it looks like it has 4 prongs.

 

 

 

The Saturn Alternator is a few ticks larger than the stock Hitachi unit but the key factors are that the mounts are close to the same and as you can see from this picture they are very close. I'll probably have to remove the bushing out of the rear mount.(Upper right hand corner of the four mounts butted up against each other)

 

 

 

Luckily I have some help from "Daphnie, The Dark Overlord and Destroyer of Planets"

 

 

 

Going to go out and trial fit the Alternator and then head to the P&P to get the electrical plug off a Saturn.

 

Can someone help me to figure out how to wire this thing up as my truck currently has a Voltage Regulator which the goal is to do away with it but I would like to have this thing wired in correctly.

 

Thanks!

 

:)

[Mike Phillips]

***Update***

 

Everything is working now.

 

Finished installing the Saturn Alternator and wiring it in and then started the truck and tested all the components and everything is working normal. Even the back-up lights which weren't working before are now working.

 

My guess is that the Voltage Regulator was the culprit. My mechanic said both the Alternator and the Voltage Regulator were not working properly when he tested them.

 

Instead of replacing stock components I installed the Saturn Alternator and jumped the appropriate wires where they plugged into the Voltage Regulator and now everything is working.

 

Thanks for all the help everyone...

 

:cool:

[Jcooper]

Not drawn to exact scale but the components are more or less in relative position to each other

 

 

 

That relay is the CHOKE HEATER RELAY

 

 

 

 

 

Something is mis-wired, no way the turn signal is connected to the choke heater. If you follow the wires you'll see that the trigger wires that work the relay go to the alternator and ground this makes the relay only work if the alternator is charging. (motor running)

 

If you look at the diagram the other two wires on the relay are marked LW. The wire to the right decends and joins a horizontal wire marked BW and enters the cab... this should go to the ignition switch.

 

What color wire are you getting the flashing signal on ??? Can't tell in the picture.

 

 

 

 

 

Does anyone know where I can find a replacement CHOKE HEATER RELAY? Nice write up btw- helping a lot of my issues as well

[ggzilla]

Nissan sells them. Nissan part number 25235-P0101 for Datsun 521 Pickup.

 

Course you don't need the relay. Unplug the bad relay and jump IGN (blue wire) to Choke (red wire). It works the same except if you leave key on engine off. So don't leave it ON for long without starting the engine.