1.4L race motor needs more ...

[Morrisun]

A 107 casting is on a H72 cylinder  head, but to be sure you will have to pull the rocker cover as the H72 casting number is by #4 valve springs.

 

IF it is a H72 head, they are open chamber heads with 30/37 valves not a bad flowing head. Make sure what head you have, as the 107 mark was on more than one head.

 

http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=A-series_Cylinder_Heads#Regular_Oval_PortThis link will help you identify the cylinder head.

 

Rear end H150 Ratios from Nissan North America:

B210
1975-1979 4sp and auto: 3.889
1975-1979 5sp: 3.70
210 PARTS CATALOG
3.889 AUTO, A12 1979-1980
3.700 MANUAL(A14) 1979-1980
3.545 AUTO(CAL),A12 1981-1982
3.545 MANUAL(A14,MPG) 1981-1982
3.700 MAN(A15),AUTO(FED,CAN) 1981-1982
3.545 MANUAL(A15,MPG) 1980

[TimGreen]

A 107 casting is on a H72 cylinder  head, but to be sure you will have to pull the rocker cover as the H72 casting number is by #4 valve springs.

 

IF it is a H72 head, they are open chamber heads with 30/37 valves not a bad flowing head. Make sure what head you have, as the 107 mark was on more than one head.

 

http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=A-series_Cylinder_Heads#Regular_Oval_PortThis link will help you identify the cylinder head.

 

Rear end H150 Ratios from Nissan North America:

B210

1975-1979 4sp and auto: 3.889

1975-1979 5sp: 3.70

210 PARTS CATALOG

3.889 AUTO, A12 1979-1980

3.700 MANUAL(A14) 1979-1980

3.545 AUTO(CAL),A12 1981-1982

3.545 MANUAL(A14,MPG) 1981-1982

3.700 MAN(A15),AUTO(FED,CAN) 1981-1982

3.545 MANUAL(A15,MPG) 1980

I am told the rear end is a H165. 

We found today it is a locker (welded spider gears) and so is the 3.90 we will install before the next race.

Now trying to find out what gears are in the 4-speed manual transmission.

[datzenmike]

The '74 710 came with H-165 diff, L16 engine and if an automatic....... 4.11 gears

 

 

 

Look on the side of the transmission. May say 56 or 60 series. Likely 60 series if 'race car'.

 

1st... 3.513

2nd.. 2.170

3rd.. 1.378

4th.. 1.000

 

I guess the transmission is in the car?? Rather laborious but mark the crank pulley and driveshaft, place in first gear clutch ingaged and turn the engine 20 times exactly while counting the output turns.

 

20 input turns should equal 5.7 driveshaft turns. Just a C hair under. This would ID it as the F4W60 four speed.

 

If you got 5.3 turns then it's an F456A four speed.

 

 

Record what you get and I can ID if it's maybe from a B-210 or... ?

[datsunfreak]

There's no 'science' on this. Who told you that? Take your thermostat out. You won't overheat from it.

 

Except I've seen dozens of engines overheat from doing exactly that. No one "told me" anything. 7 years spent as an ASE certified mechanic and having my own shop for nearly 20 years has taught me that.

 

Mind you, I live in Texas, not Canada, so your mileage definitely may vary...   ^_^

 

 

 The thermostat sets the minimum temp an engine runs at. Once it reaches maximum open how is it slowing down the water flow in the rad??????

 

When open, it still acts as a restriction to slow the water flow down. 

 

 

The water needing more time to transfer heat to the air is a myth. 

 

No, it isn't. I'm saying it needs some time. More time than running with zero restriction would give it. 

 

As Stoffregen said:

 

 

Using the center of the thermostat as a restrictor is common practice with racing engines.

 

[flatcat19]

^ ^ I just went through that exact experiment with my 521.

 

When conducting this experiment, Mike, you were included in the PMs about my findings. Datsunfreak was as well.

 

 

Water never slowing down to cool will continually keep entering/exiting engine hotter.

 

It may lose a degree or two when passing through the rad, but all water will keep climbing in temp. Never will it have the chance to cool.

 

 

 

If you are correct you would go out and remove your thermostat right now before your trip to Canby next month.

[TimGreen]

^ ^ I just went through that exact experiment with my 521.

 

When conducting this experiment, Mike, you were included in the PMs about my findings. Datsunfreak was as well.

 

 

Water never slowing down to cool will continually keep entering/exiting engine hotter.

 

It may lose a degree or two when passing through the rad, but all water will keep climbing in temp. Never will it have the chance to cool.

 

 

 

If you are correct you would go out and remove your thermostat right now before your trip to Canby next month.

The thermostat plate is still there with the original hole, we simply removed the movable piece and spring.  I agree you can not remove the entire thermostat, you would probably get cavitation in the water pump at higher RPM's which would produce little or no water movement.  It is a common practice in race engines to do exactly this to prevent a closed thermostat failure.

[TimGreen]

If anyone has a H-165 differential with 4.11 gears (or taller) available - please PM me.

 

If anyone has a H89 oval port head available - please PM me.

 

Thanks,

Tim

[datzenmike]

^ ^ I just went through that exact experiment with my 521.

 

When conducting this experiment, Mike, you were included in the PMs about my findings. Datsunfreak was as well.

 

 

Water never slowing down to cool will continually keep entering/exiting engine hotter.

 

It may lose a degree or two when passing through the rad, but all water will keep climbing in temp. Never will it have the chance to cool.

 

 

 

If you are correct you would go out and remove your thermostat right now before your trip to Canby next month.

 

 

 

Rubbish.  Ever been in a building that has hot water radiators and a boiler in the basement???? Well when you want more heat you open the valve on the radiator to increase the flow of hot water, not close it slightly. If your nuclear reactor is having a melt down you turn the circulating pumps to high speed not lower them.

 

 

 quote:

There is an elementary equation from basic thermodynamics that states that the rate of heat transfer (Q) equals the mass flow rate (M) times a Constant (the specific heat of water) times the Delta T (fluid temp out minus fluid temp in):

 

Q = M x C x Delta T

In other words, the rate of heat transfer is directly proportional to mass flow rate. If you increase the flow rate, you will then increase the rate of heat transfer. Since you cannot mess with mother nature, it is very naive to think it works any other way.... http://www.overclockers.com/water-cooling-flow-rate-and-heat-transfer/

 

 

The thermostat plate is still there with the original hole, we simply removed the movable piece and spring.  I agree you can not remove the entire thermostat, you would probably get cavitation in the water pump at higher RPM's which would produce little or no water movement.  It is a common practice in race engines to do exactly this to prevent a closed thermostat failure.

 

You will get more cavitation with the thermostat closed or open but acting like a restriction. A removed thermostat will cavitate the least because the flow speed is closest to the impeller speed. Think about it...if the water is traveling the same speed as the propeller it can't possibly cavitate.

[KoHeartsGPA]

You don't live in warm to hot weather, Mike, if your logic was correct, then why do manufacturers design engines WITH a thermostat?

 

I'd like to hear your logic....

[datzenmike]

So that engines reach and maintain their operating temperature. See post #34. To think that slowing coolant flow increases radiator heat transfer is off the charts.

[flatcat19]

Well, you're wrong.

 

 

 

Let us know when you remove your thermostat from your own car.

[KoHeartsGPA]

Okay Mike :lol:

[flatcat19]

This is far and away off topic from OP's posting...sorry for that...

 

 

 

A car will overheat under normal driving conditions with no thermostat installed.

 

 

Argue it any way you want

I have tested and proven this already. I have seen the same problem exist in other people's (customers) vehicles too.

 

If your hypothesis is correct, why did these cars stop overheating when a thermostat was installed in place of one either missing or stuck open?

[datzenmike]

Not wrong. The thermostat sets the minimum running temperature. Running without one there is no control and it will over cool.

 

If they overheated then it was something else other than thermodynamics.

[flatcat19]

Again, wrong. I. Have. Proven. This.

 

How do you "over cool" an engine that now has no ability to cool as designed?

[datzenmike]

Did anyone read the link I posted??? no? Highlighted in RED At least I backed up my 'hypothesis' with some fact.... and there's more, but cumbersome reading. 

 

 

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Heat-transfer-coefficient-with-coolant-flow-rates_fig8_303507850

 

 

 

http://file.scirp.org/Html/3-1860064_24895.htm

[KELMO]

Back to OP.....I will look and see if I have the head you are looking for. May even be on Shy town(Schaumburg) first of June.

 

Edit: That's kinda west Chicago...ain't it. Born in Mendota, moved to the desert....don't really know.

[TimGreen]

And back to the original topic, Tim can you run down what all has been done to the suspension/brakes? Fixing some bits under there will net you faster lap times sooner than engine mods ever will...

Unfortunately I didn't build the car (I just recently bought it).  I don't have a lot of information on the modifications and no idea how it was from the factory.  It has sway bars front and rear, it appears to have the original brakes (disk front, drum rear). coil over front and rear (second set of springs came with), and single adjustable shocks.  We have not aligned or done corner weights yet - ran it as it was last raced as a Chump Car at Heartland Park 8/5/11.

[TimGreen]

Back to OP.....I will look and see if I have the head you are looking for. May even be on Shy town(Schaumburg) first of June.

 

Edit: That's kinda west Chicago...ain't it. Born in Mendota, moved to the desert....don't really know.

Schaumburg is about 25 minutes from our house (near DuPage Airport (KDPA).

[datzenmike]

The only car I know of with an H-165 and 4.11 gears is the '74 710 automatic.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

In the spirit of keeping this thread on track, I'll not even mention the word thermostat...

 

Have you tried finding new gears? I know they were available when I was building and racing Datsuns, but that was a while ago.

 

If I recall, Heartland Park is long and flat, as compared to Sears Point. More like Road Atlanta, so you don't need a super tall gear. We ran 4.375 or 4.11 at Sears Point, Thunderhill, Laguna Seca, PIR, Bottonwillow, etc, but that was in a ITC 510. Your car needs more revs, so I'm thinking you want at least a 4.11.

[mhub91]

You're all retarded haha.

 

Mike is correct. I've spent my entire young life as a ASE master technician and have spent time as a tuner and fabricator.

 

Thermostats aren't in place to keep an engine cool. they are, in fact, there to keep the engine at an operating temperature

[racerx]

Im not a mechanic but one of my ol skool mechanic told me that it acts as a valve or gate and lets coolant in at a certain temp.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

The size of the hole in the t-sat determines the flow of coolant. When racing, you want to eliminate potential problems that cause larger problems when/if they fail. The valve in the t-stat is one of those. If it sticks shut, the motor overheats, rings stick, heads crack, etc. By removing the valve, you eliminate this possible failure.

 

Race cars also generally don't run fans, so an engine with no fan and a properly restricted coolant flow should run at the optimal temp, no matter what. In the many years that Datsuns have been on the track (40 plus years), the stock thermostat with the valve removed has proven to be about optimal for proper cooling, assuming, of course that the radiator is also sized properly. But, racers are free to determine if that orifice in the restrictor plate is properly sized, so if it runs too cool or too hot, try a different size hole.

 

You guys are beating a dead horse. Theory is great, and professional training is important, but experience is reality. On-road cars need thermostats. Race cars should use only a restrictor plate.

[datsunfreak]

Unfortunately I didn't build the car (I just recently bought it).  I don't have a lot of information on the modifications and no idea how it was from the factory.  It has sway bars front and rear, it appears to have the original brakes (disk front, drum rear). coil over front and rear (second set of springs came with), and single adjustable shocks.  We have not aligned or done corner weights yet - ran it as it was last raced as a Chump Car at Heartland Park 8/5/11.

 

If allowed, brake upgrades could help tremendously as far as keeping speed longer and shedding it quicker. The best thing up front would be 280ZX struts to get the vented rotors. Fade will become almost non-existent with those, as well as good pads and rotors.. 

 

The rear drums will be fine, but you can easily swap in an H165 disc brake rear end from an 80-83 200SX if you feel you need discs.

 

Swapping the rear control arms out for heim-jointed rods would help with keeping the rear end planted and doing what it's supposed to do at speed. Same could be done up front. I'm sure you know on a track car eliminating rubber (read: slop) is a good thing.