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paradime

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A place for those who swapped or are swapping modern engines under the hood of their Datsuns.

 

There are lots of you out there, so hopefully this thread might help those Ratsun members focus their knowledge, talent, and creativity into a collective construct of knowledge and info.If this interests you, please introduce yourself, your car project or plans, skill set, and specific knowledge. If you have a build thread, also link it here.

 

 

The idea is to bounce around Q&A, NA, turbocharging, supercharging, EF, carb conversion, ECU tuning, fabricating & fitting, sharing ideas, tips & tricks, picts of, new parts & products coming on the market, planning choices & thought processes, success & failures, things to watch out for, post instal driving experience with…

 

If you know your shit, please show respect, even for what seems to you like the goofiest of ideas.

If you’re just a beginner, please show respect and do your research, (google) your questions before asking.

 

Although you might be, not everyone is a master machinist, mechanic, electrical tech, fabricator, or done every swap known to man. Some of us are beginners with an idea. If you’re not here to share what you know, support others with their projects, or to learn from those who've done it, chances are you’re in the wrong thread.

 

 

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For the past 9 years I've been building and or upgrading an SR20 swapped 510. It was sitting on a flipped X-member with McKinney poly motor mounts, but has been changed to Jeff's rack & pinion X-member on stock s13 motor mounts.

 

I'm running a top mount GT3071r on a log mani, controlled by a Link G4 stand alone ECU. Converted the coil packs to LS2, added an ethanol sensor, and had the ECU programed to run any ratio of gas to ethanol. I've been running e85 for close to 4 years and @ 15 psi it's making 300HP at the wheel. I'm a huge fan of the veggie sauce.

 

Only major work, before converting to ethanol, in 2013 I replaced the head gasket with all metal Tomei, and rebuilt the head. Sense then it's taken everything thrown at it without complaint. 

 

Although there are a shit ton of SR swaps out there, I've learned every swap is unique. If I had a super power skill, it would be research and planning. Not exciting, but really handy. I know a lot about swapping an SR in a 510, and e85 conversion.

 

 

The Paradime Odyssey 

 

http://the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15379

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This has the potential to be an awesome thread. I have a non running KA 510 and really no clue.

 

 

I'll be watching this one.

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KELMO, where are you at with your KA? Often with a swap, most garages won't touch it, because they have no idea what's been done, modded, eliminated, etc. If you can fine a mechanic who's willing to learn your car's idiosyncrasies and work on it, buy him flowers and dinner. 

 

Have you checked spark, fuel delivery, power to the ECU? 

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HOGIE just went through a spark issue, we chased the electrical gremlin for hours and hours, I even took his coil and module to test on my truck and fired right up, we kept getting codes #21 (coil) and #41 (ambient temperature sensor) we followed all the wires to see if there was a kink or anything, found nothing, after few hours and redoing the entire can am hook up we plugged it and........no spark....codes #11, #12, #21 and #41....at this point my head is saying gotta be the ECU....left that night and next day HOGIE call me saying it now runs, different ECU, problem with this one is one of the lights is gone, so you can't troubleshoot codes, so I told him to stop by at my place and get my spare ECU, he plugged it this morning, fired up immediately with no hesitation, was a bad ECU creating mayhem....

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I've heard similar stories with SR igniter chip and ECU issues. Volotile doesn't begin to describe my relationship with that shit... I F'n HATE electrical goose chases, and I've been on many  :mad:  

 

When I finished my car mechanically and wiring it, I had the shop that sold me my Link ECU to install it, and test out the new Wiring Specialties harness so they could fire it up and dyno tune the car. After months of dicking around they told me the brand new harness was shit and had to tare it apart. Then they called to say the engine was shot and needed to be rebuilt. BS, I did a compression and leak down test on that damn motor when I bought it, so I knew they were full of shit. Turns out these ass monkeys uploaded the CA18DET map to the ECU and had repined the entire SR20 harness plug to match it... Fuck of the mountain top! So pissed I could barely see straight. That same day I took it to Rebello and they had it running in 20 minutes. 

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Para, I bought the car as an unfinished project about a year ago with the thought of putting an L motor back in it.  I have 2 other Datsuns in front of this one so I will pop in this thread and pick up what I can.  Also have a buddy that was a Nissan/Infiniti tech so there is at least a brain close by that I can pick.

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My KA24DE in my 620 was have some weird relay issues. I did a full rewire of all the motor relays only to find out it was the ECU. 

 

At least my relays are all nice and tidy now :) 

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My KA24DE in my 620 was have some weird relay issues. I did a full rewire of all the motor relays only to find out it was the ECU. 

 

At least my relays are all nice and tidy now :)

 

There's always a tall price to pay for a good silver lining.  :thumbup:

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Ok, so yesterday on my way back from Silver Falls I noticed two issues with my truck, the running rich issue I've been ignoring for months despite having the new parts in my parts box, is getting worse, and an exhaust leak, so I addressed both.....

 

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CTS (coolant temperature sensor) seems to be a common issue with the single cam KA from what I've been researching...

 

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Now she's running smoothly with no smoke at all and better pedal reaction too, win win!

 

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Idle speed back to normal

 

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And as for the exhaust leak, the 3 nuts that holds the colector to the manifold came loose, so bad one was a turn away from falling off and the other two....well....took them off without any tools....so much for (lock washers not required) label should have listened to my gut....added 3 of those, no more exhaust leak :)

 

Basically just replace the CTS when you do the swap if it looks like it's been there forever :)

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Righteous work KO. It's always nice to get such satisfying results on little stuff.

 

Shit tends to back out of exhaust manifolds due to the constant cycling of extreme heat and cooling. Same issue on turbo manifolds. I converted my log mani to V-band clamps at the turbine, waste gate and down pipe. Shit's so tight up in there, the last thing I wanted was chasing nuts backing out. 

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Bullet notes: SR20DET Into a Datsun 510.

 

There are countless engines that have been swapped into Datsuns and there are a thousand ways to skin each of those cats. Everyone approaching a swap project has their own vision, skill set, budget/resources, creative wild hairs, and determination, but there are common universal issues that need to be considered and overcome. 

 

When I got started, I knew nothing about swapping an SR20 into a 510. Although I researched the process and had lots of tech help, I was blindsided by many unanticipated details. Had I known some of these issues I might had done things a bit differently and surely would have save a shit load of time and money.

 

I thought I’d put together a list of things that go into swapping an SR into a 510. If anyone can do the same for other swaps into other models, I’m sure the community would appreciate it.

 

 

 

Bullet notes: Physically installing an SR20DET Into a Datsun 510.

 

* Flip, or fabricate the front cross member for a front sump oil pan.

 

* [Motor mounts] consider what fuel rail and turbo position intake, and how low you want the car. Too high and potential issues with front high points hitting the hood. McKinney poly mounts although loud, are slotted and have the ability to move the motor.

 

* Tranny bell and steering linkage Some times the center drag link rubs the bottom lip of the SR's tranny bell. For me it was an issue, but after grinding off about a 1/2" of the lip, problem solved. 

 

* Top/bottom mount turbo. In stock form the exhaust down pipe runs into the 510’s steering box so

 

Many do a top mount conversion with a cast log mani. Advantages being options for bigger turbo, faster spooling better low end power, easier heat management, and durability. Disadvantages runs the down pipe very close to the brake master cylinder requiring serious heat shielding or relocation of the master cylinder. Less top end power.

 

Others opt for a tube top mount mani with advantages in moving the turbo forward for more room, better top end power, and cooler looking. Disadvantages more turbo lag, more heat dispersed under the hood, and they tend to be made cheeper flimsy.

 

Some keep it stock bottom mount and convert the steering to rack & pinion. Others who also keep it bottom manifold with 51.2mm ID exhaust, but make a hard turn right off the exhaust turbine to avoid the steering. Obvious advantage of simplicity and lowest cost.

 

No matter what route is used, it is a very tight area with the turbo oil return, steering box and linkage, and brake master cylinder all right there. If you are running a 3” exhaust it get’s even tighter.

 

* Cutting the back edge of the tranny tunnel at the shift opening. I took some off the sides as well but made a pounded out sheet aluminum cowl and pop riveted it in place to seal back around the sifter block.

 

* Shortening the drive shaft. The SR20 5 and 6 speed trannies are longer than the L’s 4 speed, or dog leg 5.

 

* Fuel system upgrades to EF. It’s not as easy as simply adding a high pressure fuel pump to the 510’s fuel system, The SR comes with a built in fuel rail and fuel regulator that can be used, but feeding that system is a matter of life and death to your $2,000 investment. You need to feed the beast 100% of the time.

 

First it requires feed and return lines. I’ve seen people use the stock 510 fuel line for a return. The feed needs to be bigger though. The last thing you want with a screaming boosted engine is a sudden dry feed on the fuel line at WFO. If all the fuel sloshes to one side of the tank and the pickup gulps a bunch of air, the sudden lean mixture can flash heat your turbo and motor and cook them. Build a surge tank, put the fuel pump in there and you can make that monkey scream without worries.

 

* Coolant system upgrades. You will need a bigger radiator, but first you need to modify the water neck off the head. If you’re doing it yourself, remember to provide an inlet for the turbo return line, and if you want it, a bung for out going coolant temp sensor.

 

 

* Electrical wiring harness.  Usually the SR ships with it's stock upper harness, or what's left of it. If you have the patience and talent, you can repair and convert it to work with the stock 510 harness. Or if your time and sanity are important to you, you can buy an SR to 510 upper and lower tranny wiring harnesses that are NEW and ready to go. If you're buying an SR remember to make sure it comes with the igniter chip, the matching ECU, and the CAS (cam angle sensor).

 

* Front sway bar. Because the oil pan is relocated, the stock sway bar configuration does not fit. There are sway bars out there for this, but you can also buy light tube component parts to choose your own stiffness. http://www.artmorrison.com/splinedsway.php

 

Other Upgrades to the chassis rigidity, drive train, suspension, and brakes are important, but are totally subject to how much power you’re making, and how you intend to use the car. There are thousands of variabilities, options to choose from, and solutions being created that none of us have even thought of.

 

Please Share Your Thoughts and Ideas.

 

Also if you can, please put together bullet notes for other swaps/models etc.

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 I have many opinions when it comes to SR swaps.  I should make a like a dislike post :)  Some cars I've had to work on have some really annoying mods, I've also stole some good ideas.  

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 I have many opinions when it comes to SR swaps.  I should make a like a dislike post :)  Some cars I've had to work on have some really annoying mods, I've also stole some good ideas.  

 

Does anyone else want to hear a few of Jeff's likes and dislike? Test them out here and see where it goes.

 

That is unless you dislike some of the shit I've done to my car.  ;)

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Simple things will help your swap go easier. 

 

Remove the intake and exhaust. They make it a pain in the ass to maneuver into our small engine bays. That and you want to replace the gaskets anyways right? 

 

 

Bigger motor into a 620? Put the rubber mounts between the motor mounts and frame last. This lets you put the motor in and move it up to position, otherwise the angle of the dangle is all off and you hit the firewall. 

 

 

I have more, but I haven't compiled them yet. I'll just add here as I remember or as they come up and compile them later. :)

 

 

Jeff, let's hear it. Especially the stolen ideas. 

 

 

Para, great idea for a thread BTW :thumbup:

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Thanks ]2eDeYe

 

Wrestling a big ass motor in to a little Datsun can be a serious PITA. Specially when there's fresh pain involved. Instead of passing it through that tight space, try installing the engine bottom up and it's a synch to get an SR into a 510. Did it on my own with my car.

 

Put the front cross member on a creeper with the engine mounts on it. Hoist the engine and tranns onto the mounts, and bolt it all in.  Then bolt 18" long steel plates to the front bumper mounts, tie a thick rope and use a come along to lift the front of the car. Pull the front suspension, roll the engine under, lower the car onto the engine and bolt the X- member in. Put jack stands under the member and reinstall the suspension. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here's some loaded questions regarding throwing a shit ton of power through the 510's rear suspension.

 

Although it can, the 510's semi trailing arm rear suspension design/geometry was never intended to handle the power and torque of a modern possibly turbocharged engine. Specifically, the issues of squatting under hard acceleration, and instability from trail through steering when powering out of hard corners. We all anticipate the day when an aftermarket suspension will solve these issues, but this is a far more technically difficult task than meets the eye. For the moment lets focus on what's available. 

 

Obviously, if you're pushing performance in competitive pursuits, road comfort has less importance, but is there some good middle ground you've found?

 

Assuming you've corrected toe after lowering, what are some ways you've found to deal with squatting? 

 

I've heard of guys embracing trail through, even removing the rear roll bar all together. I've also seen guys go to great lengths to eliminate any body roll with fat ass roll bars and ridiculously stiff springs and shock damping. Would it be beneficial/harmful to have very limited body roll with road "comfortable ish" spring and damping rates?

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