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1972 Honda Turbo 510


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#1 NickE

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 04:11 PM

So I've had a 1972 Datsun 510 4 door for years.   The stock engine was too slow, so I swapped it for a KA24E. I never got that running right, and have always been a Honda guy, so I decided to swap in a Honda engine.  Since I like to do things differently (Make things hard for myself...) so I decided not to do an S2K swap.   I decided that I'd do a K-series Honda. 

 

I had some guys ask about the swap, so here is what was done (so far). 

 

Here is the car.... when it was running:

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My brother smashed his Element into a telephone pole.... which made it easy to find a donor.

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A bit of cleaning and paint makes it look less like a pile.

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For a transmission I wanted to have a 6spd. I looked at the Miata, S2K and the RX8 transmissions. I was going to use an RX8 transmission because they are cheap to buy. When I went to pick one up as a mock-up (for $25) I wasn't paying attention, and ended up being given a Nissan 350Z transmission.  They are known to be heavy duty and with the turbo plans, I figured it would hold any power I put into it.... so may as well use it.  Only problem, they are HUGE.   Here it is next to the 5 speed 240sx transmission.

 

pnwRBU2.jpg

 

   



#2 NickE

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 04:20 PM

So I mocked up what I thought i was going to do...

9pY5X0y.jpg

 

I realized that in order to do it that way, I'd need to have an adapter plate, custom flywheel, and would have issues with the starter, and the transmission was so long that the shifter would be too far back. 

I figured it would be easier to use the Element's transmission as a bell housing, and mate it to the transmission with a custom front cover.

 

Element bell housing:

3wrNQtM.jpg 

 

Bell housing cut off the transmission

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Front cover removed

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Machining the cover plate

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Length comparison between the Honda and KA24E

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#3 NickE

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 04:52 PM

The engine was placed in the car, and it was obvious the cross member  and oil pan would not be playing together. 

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With modifying the crossmember and cutting up the oil pan the engine would sit in the engine bay. 

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Engine mounts made:

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The oil pump on the K24 has balance shafts that make it longer than the RSX Type-S oil pump.  To clear the crossmember an keep oil volume, I swapped oil pumps. 

K24 pump:

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Crossmember fab (I'd like to change to the JB coachworks crossmember in the future by mounting it farther back on the chassis and mounting the lower control arms forward on the crossmember)

 

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#4 paradime

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 07:06 PM

Dude, that cross member is a piece of work. You've definitely made things hard on yourself, but I'm a fan of that. Best of luck.


36028318531_e4983e3724_m.jpg


The blocked list is getting bigger-but you were the first.

 

 

 

http://the510realm.c...php?f=3&t=15379

 

http://youtu.be/H4rYbyudrhA?t=55s  https://youtu.be/GZtp6PiFlTI?t=2s https://youtu.be/G4RjPtffZHI?t=2s

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


#5 carterb

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 08:08 PM

Pretty car.  Looks like you've got the skills to see your plan through to the end.  Nice work so far.

--carter



#6 banzai510(hainz)

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 09:02 AM

Your good. Your soo good that I cant believe you couldnt get the KA running

 

Nice car and one of the better Datsun colors

 

 

Nice house you have also!!!!!!


Throw on some Weber sidedrafts, Rising Sun hood.... call it good

#7 Antihero983

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 10:35 AM

Officially one of my favorite 510s. K-series engines are SOOOOO GOOOOD. 


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#8 racerx

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 10:55 AM

I've seen s2000 engines on 1st Celicas, high rev engines.

#9 NickE

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 08:03 AM

Yeah, I do like to make it hard.    The crossmember is one of the few areas that I knew I was going to redo later anyways, I'm not a fan of how it is right now.  (When I go to a R&P steering I'll build a new one).



#10 NickE

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 08:27 AM

I think the issue with the KA was where the O2 sensor was mounted... it always ran HUGELY rich. You'd think it was a diesel with the smoke.



#11 NickE

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 08:44 AM

You may have noticed in some pics that I'm not posting completely in chronological order. I've decided to group stuff together. 

 

So in order to fit the huge transmission into the car, I needed to do some tunnel massaging. 

 

Here is what the tunnel looked like with the 240sx swap:

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A small hole was cut in the floor.....

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A little welding and most of the hole is filled.

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In addition to the tunnel mods, I wanted to get the intercooler and radiator positioning done.   The goal was to push the intercooler as far forward as possible while still keeping the grill in place.   I mocked up the pair of them with some foam board.

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I cut some pockets for the radiator mounts

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The hole for the intercooler was enlarged. 

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This is how the intercooler sits.

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#12 NickE

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 09:04 AM

I then did some test fitting of the engine and parts. You can see in here the custom intake I built.  The stock intake would not work because it faces into the firewall.  I took the stock intake and cut the runners off. I machined a flange for the plenum and bent up the aluminum box. I decided to go center intake because it would be easier for plumbing to the intercooler. 

 

In addition I made a custom alternator / pulley install. I deleted the A/C and power steering, and am using a non-Honda alternator (one I had just bought for the KA24E). Custom idler setup and adjuster mechanism made.

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Here you can see on the back of the head the K-Tuned coolant passage block I needed to point the coolant away from the firewall. 

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intercooler and rad in place. (I may have over engineered the upper rad mounts :D )

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AN fittings everywhere!

 

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With the transmission back in I could finish the tunnel. I shortened the shifter mechanism on the transmission as much as I could without a new shifter mechanism. 

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I then 3D printed a concept for the tunnel. 

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I then made it out of steel

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#13 thisismatt

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 09:08 AM

Legit. Does the motor spin the correct way for the stock rear end?
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#14 NickE

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 09:22 AM

TURBO!!!  So after a bunch of research I decided on a Borg Warner S200 SX-E 52mm turbo with a twin volute housing.  In order to make use of it, I had to make sure that I designed the exhaust manifold correctly.   Since turbo K24 510s are rare (I know of no others) finding an exhaust manifold to fit would be hard. I decided that i had to go custom.   I wanted the turbo to sit here:

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For flow I need to ensure that the correct cylinders went to each 1/2 of the turbo. I designed it to have the shortest possible pipes, and also tried to match the lengths as much as possible. In order to mock it up easier, I 3d printed elbows and mocked the manifold up.

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I then machined myself up some flanges and bout some pipe and elbows.

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tacked it together:

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welded it and cleaned it up (I'm not a welder and was welding it with MIG... crap welding.. it will likely crack!!)

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Since I wanted to keep the exhaust separate going into the turbo, I needed to have 2 wastegates.  

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I then had to mock up the downpipe. 

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it fits in the car

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#15 NickE

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 09:25 AM

Legit. Does the motor spin the correct way for the stock rear end?

 

The K is a Honda engine that turns the right way. B,D,H series Hondas are backwards. 



#16 NickE

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 09:33 AM

So with my plans for 350-400hp, I figured a stock R160 open diff might not be the best bet.  Also with the gearing of the 350Z transmission the stock rear end would make first gear useless. So I got a Subaru STI R180 with a 3.54 ratio and torsen LSD.  I want to do CV joints, but don't want to do the adapters to the Porsche style CV joints.   In addition I want to go to disk brakes.   So I am currently working on a conversion using the 240sx rear disks/calipers, 350Z outer cv joints (rzeppa style, instead of the tri-lobe the 240sx has), STI inner CV joints, custom shaft.   I'm designing new trailing arms to fit the 240sx hub/wheel bearing

 

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#17 Josh K.

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 05:49 PM

it fits in the car
vzEkrCi.jpg


I love this build and appreciate the work you've done. I have to say I know you can do better then this for the hot pipe though. Weld a 90deg on the turbo outlet and make a smooth pipe transition to the intercooler.

I'm just offering constructive criticism. I know you can do better.
My 8? year KA24DET Powered 510 Engineering experiment.....

http://community.rat...98-the-phoenix/

#18 Josh K.

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 05:52 PM

Here's what I did for mine. Not sure if you have the room though.

IMG_20151101_163750_zpsz3cxtxar.jpg
My 8? year KA24DET Powered 510 Engineering experiment.....

http://community.rat...98-the-phoenix/

#19 paradime

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 09:55 PM

That exhaust mani is F'n art, Well done. What's you boost psi goal? What's the compression ratio on the motor BTW? 


36028318531_e4983e3724_m.jpg


The blocked list is getting bigger-but you were the first.

 

 

 

http://the510realm.c...php?f=3&t=15379

 

http://youtu.be/H4rYbyudrhA?t=55s  https://youtu.be/GZtp6PiFlTI?t=2s https://youtu.be/G4RjPtffZHI?t=2s

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


#20 banzai510(hainz)

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 06:55 AM

dont you think the 3.54 GR is still kinda too tall?


Throw on some Weber sidedrafts, Rising Sun hood.... call it good