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The turbo.........does not fit............


bubba_doc

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I researched turbocharging a z24.  www.turbodatsun.com had me convinced it could be done.  Little did i realize that all those photos of that turbo application were on a right steer car.

 

So, after extensive work and parts purchases including moving some air conditioner lines out of the way.....  the turbo does not fit.  Whit the answer is a smaller turbo, and I will be looking for one.  I do not think that is the entire answer because lets say i get a smaller turbo, I think it would still be too hot to be sitting next to the master cylinder.  I have some pics that tell the story, but I am sure you can imagine.  

 

Is there a way to shrink the girth of the brake booster and move the master cylinder closer to the firewall?

 

I am a little scared I may have hit an insurmountable obstacle, however, if anyone would have answers, it would be you guys.

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A smaller turbo, and a GOOD heat shield.

Not some single layer shield.

 

I once had a header way to close to something in a '76 Corolla, but made a multi-layer shield.

Several layers of sheet aluminum (stainless would be better), with fiberglass mat sandwiched between them. 

All pop-riveted together.

Worked great.

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You need brakes. On a turbo truck you need brakes even more! Take the booster out and you'll need both feet to stop.  Build a heat shield or wrap the turbo or both.

All I could think of was Fred Flintstone.....

 

So the brake booster (vacuum assisted) wont really work in a turbo application will it?   Does not seem like there will be that much intake manifold vacuum to help boost the brakes.  So do I scrap everything but the lines and get something like a Willwood or AFCO  pedal assembly complete with master cylinder and feed that into a 5 1/2 inch "Master Power Brakes" Single Diaphragm Remote Brake Booster.  throw in an electric vacuum pump like the one they sell at summit and then hook the brake booster up to the factory lines?   

 

Why does this have to be so complicated?  I think the fact that stopping is NOT overrated is the answer, I just wanted to ask that anyway.

 

BTW, I think to get a smaller turbo, i would have to get one for a motorcycle.  The one that I have IS small.  I was only ever trying to put 6 lbs of boost to this thing anyway.  So, I cant shrink the blower, so I am going to HAVE to clear out some room.

 

Funny, in my inexperience, I never imagined that I would end up taking the whole damn truck apart and putting it back together again, Heck, I might as well take the transmission off and do something to that.  I think it will be the only system I have not messed with.  I really was NOT trying to take some master mechanics crash course here.  Oh well.

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You will not be boosting at the same time you need brakes so there will be lots of intake vacuum. In addition the vacuum line from the intake to the booster has a one way valve that holds vacuum in the booster even when the engine is shut off.

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Remote mount turbos are problematic at best.

Too much heat loss in exhaust flow before it gets to the turbo.

Way more lag.

Plumbing lube oil to, and from the turbo, which requires an axillary pump to push the oil back to the engine.

Plumbing charge air all the way back to the engine.

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Remote mount turbos are problematic at best.

Too much heat loss in exhaust flow before it gets to the turbo.

Way more lag.

Plumbing lube oil to, and from the turbo, which requires an axillary pump to push the oil back to the engine.

Plumbing charge air all the way back to the engine.

I know, i was really trying to avoid that.  its a 4x4 too and I use it for hunting.  dont really look for mud holes, but sometimes i find them....    doesnt seem like a good place for a turbo, but would technically work.  I think I am going to use aftermarket booster and remote master cylinder.  that will create all kinds of room.  just gotta figure out which one will mount properly.

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I have both my Nissan 720 diesel engines turbocharged, the engines are not tilted towards the driver side, they sit straight up and down, also gas engines are likely different than diesel engines.

That said one of mine is a remote turbocharger, and one come directly off a modified exhaust manifold, the remote turbo engine has the pump turned up(modified) while the other is in the stock configuration, the remote turbo in my 720 is mounted way forward and high beside cylinder #1 and I had to cut the hood to clear the turbocharger, the other is in my 521 kingcab is beside #2 cylinder and it just clears the hood, it is very close to the the master brake cylinder, it is basically 1 inch away from both reservoirs, I had made a heat shield after a couple months of driving it but it eventually rattled/vibrated and broke off, I have grabbed the plastic reservoirs and have never found them to be hot, my brake line is a half inch away also and after driving steadily on the freeway for over an hour my brakes work just fine also, I have thought about rerouting that brake line to the other side of the master away from the turbocharger but never got around to it and eventually forgot I needed to do that, I actually had to re-position the brake master as when I first put the turbocharger in it the brake master was in the way, after looking at it closely I determined that the brake master was angled towards the engine and it worked fine, now it is straight out, clears the turbocharger barely and it still works fine.

I have a vacuum assist on the back of my alternator for the power brake booster, but these trucks with diesel engines came with that stock, this is all very tight in my 521 kingcab engine bay, there is not much room in there, while the 720 has a shit load of room compared to the 521. DSCN6959.jpg

 

DSCN6967.jpg

 

I do not know how hot gas turbochargers run on a gas engine, but this gas turbo on my diesel is for a 1800cc gas engine and I am using it on a 2500cc diesel engine, it doesn't run particularly hot ever, I have seen 1300 degrees a couple times going up a steep hill at 3000rpms on the hiway, but normally it runs at about 600 degrees at 5/6 psi at 3000rpms and raises too 900 degrees on normal hills of less than a mile in length.

You can see in the photo above that I put the pyro sensor after the turbocharger, that was a screw up, there is a place for it before the turbo but by the time I got this far I wasn't going to take it all apart just to mount it in the right spot, at that point I wasn't even sure it was going to work, my other one in the 720 runs the same exhaust temps as this one(around 600 degrees on the freeway) and it has the pyro sensor in the correct spot.

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This problem keeps coming up in different truck threads, and I still think the best solution is to remove the standoff bracket from the back of the booster and mount the booster directly to the firewall. You will likely have to move the clutch pedal/master assembly over to be able to fit them right next to each other, but so what. I'm sure with enough willpower, this solution would net you a much cleaner engine bay with more room for your turbo.

 

I performed this minor surgery on my 1983 Toyota to be able to fit a Tacoma booster next to the 3RZ. It was a surprisingly simple solution.

 

Small_Pics_2_39_zpsd37917f5.jpg

 

After_Paint_Small_008_zps98d924c8.jpg

 

83_Toyota_Small_1_272_zps68efefdf.jpg

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Stoff is right. You can relocate the clutch master farther over. Plenty of space for it. Common for d21 guys to do it.

 

Then put the booster on the firewall.

 

We need pics to actually help you. There are MANY different shapes and sizes of manifold. Show us what you have and show us where it interferes and we can give real above.

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This problem keeps coming up in different truck threads, and I still think the best solution is to remove the standoff bracket from the back of the booster and mount the booster directly to the firewall. You will likely have to move the clutch pedal/master assembly over to be able to fit them right next to each other, but so what. I'm sure with enough willpower, this solution would net you a much cleaner engine bay with more room for your turbo.

 

I performed this minor surgery on my 1983 Toyota to be able to fit a Tacoma booster next to the 3RZ. It was a surprisingly simple solution.

 

Small_Pics_2_39_zpsd37917f5.jpg

 

After_Paint_Small_008_zps98d924c8.jpg

 

83_Toyota_Small_1_272_zps68efefdf.jpg

 

Just be sure the booster will clear the steering column below it.

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The solution is this; get a sentra B12 booster, or a N13 exa(they're the same) that should clear the turbo no problem. Then, for added clearance you can shorten the pedestal 10cm,then you won't have to cut out material from the inner fender or have it interfere with the clutch master cylinder (which it will if mounted directly on the firewall). Happy boosting

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Domino effect. To fix one problem another is created causing another problem to be fixed causing another. Here's some advice. Quit right now and forget the turbo OR correct the root cause and have a correct turbo exhaust manifold made that properly positions the turbo out of the way.

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Or just bring it back to square one and do some basic fabricating to be able to start with a "clean sheet" point of view.

 

Not to keep stuffing this idea down your throats, but I do feel that losing the pedestal is the best option. For the amount of work to do any of these mods, this option would get the job done and give you the most room inside the engine bay.

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Domino effect. To fix one problem another is created causing another problem to be fixed causing another.

 

But that's often the case when modifying cars isn't it? The solution here is pretty simple, all he needs is a smaller diameter brake booster. Unless it's a gigantic turbo though, he hasn't posted a pic or any info on the turbo so....

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No one has said for sure if that is the case.

 

And if it were the case, I would jog the steering shaft out of the way to not have to use the pedestal.

 

DSCN6959.jpg

 

You can see here that the clutch master won't work with the booster moved back. I'm pretty sure the steering is also in the way too.

 

 

The turbo is the problem, the solution is the turbo. Fab a new manifold that moves it closer to the engine.

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