Air, fuel and spark, but won't start

[captain720]

We left some water (ethanol) in a Honda 4 wheeler for 4 months, had to do a carb rebuild and drain the tank to get it to run.

[racerx]

I think it depends where u are at, here in Cali, if for more than six mos it gets gummy. From my own experience.

[Gnarlykatt]

Okay time to rein this back in. Sorry for the delayed response, been busy and finally got a chance to work on the roadster again this weekend.

 

I finally got the roadster started! I decided I'd try re-wiring the cap 180 degrees and sure enough, when I did that I fired up. (Not sure when/where along the way it got flipped around). 

 

Now I'm onto a new problem. I can get it to run, but I can't keep it running. It'll fire up and run really rough for about 15-20 seconds and then die out. I've tried feathering the gas and it helps a little, but if I try giving it more gas than just a feather of the pedal it bogs down and then dies. (Usually a small cloud of white smoke shoots out of the top of the carb as soon as it dies).

 

Previous to getting this thing running, I loosed up both adjustment screws on the points distributor, (I know, stupid me) thinking maybe the ignition timing had moved and was keeping it from starting. I've tried adjusting both adjustments every which way and nothing seems to help the engine hold a better idle.

 

Anyone have any ideas?

 

I thought maybe the carb/idle jets are gunked up. But I had the top part of the carb off last summer and cleaned the bowl and the jets (which non of it was very dirty at all). The gas tank had some crap in it that kept clogging the fuel line and keeping the car from running. But I removed the tank and had it cleaned at the end of this past summer and after I reconnected it, the car was running great. 

[Dolomite]

I think it depends where u are at, here in Cali, if for more than six mos it gets gummy. From my own experience.

I hear that all the time, but I just had my first power outage in five years and ran my generator on what was in the tank, exhaust smelled funky but it ran fine.

[datzenmike]

Is the choke closing?

 

With the choke on, the fast idle cam should engage and rev it up.

[banzai510(hainz)]

weird how it ran before then the dist got turned 180.

 

I think its still a timming issue.

[datzenmike]

All you need do is swap #2 and #3 wires by mistake and it acts same as 180 out

[distributorguy]

180 out won't run at all.  Valves are always open during compression cycle when 180 out. 

Check and adjust valve lash.  

Set points to .017" gap at peak on EACH lobe.  

Ohm your plug wires and make sure they are all below 5000 Ohms, or replace them.  Test the new ones as well.  

The carbon brush in your distributor cap needs to also test at 0 Ohms.  

Set timing around 10 BTDC at slow idle.  

Then mess with fuel.  

Plugs gapped at .030" max!I prefer .025", and make sure the spark plugs also Ohm at 0 Ohms.  Do NOT use resistor plugs or precious metal plugs!!!

[wayno]

I guess I am not sure how to use or read my volt meter properly, I have a digital meter and in the Ohms section it has 20M, 200K, 20K, 2000, and 200, which one should I be using for the test(plugs and wires)?

I am asking because I had that miss I talked about quite some time ago on number 4 cylinder, the miss went away when I pulled the spark plug wire just far enough to make the spark jump from the wire to the plug, I changed wires without any positive results, so then I changed that plug from a BPR6EY to a BP5ES, the miss went away, but I only changed that plug, the other 3 are still BPR6EY and I have no miss now.

What baffles me is that I have switched that #4 plug with number #3 cylinders plug and the wire also and the miss always stayed at #4 cylinder.

 

180 out won't run at all.  Valves are always open during compression cycle when 180 out. 

Check and adjust valve lash.  

Set points to .017" gap at peak on EACH lobe.  

Ohm your plug wires and make sure they are all below 5000 Ohms, or replace them.  Test the new ones as well.  

The carbon brush in your distributor cap needs to also test at 0 Ohms.  

Set timing around 10 BTDC at slow idle.  

Then mess with fuel.  

Plugs gapped at .030" max!I prefer .025", and make sure the spark plugs also Ohm at 0 Ohms.  Do NOT use resistor plugs or precious metal plugs!!!

[banzai510(hainz)]

recheck the valve lash on that cylinder

 

 

I buy NGL wire set NE64 and have no proplems with them

[wayno]

recheck the valve lash on that cylinder

 

 

I buy NGL wire set NE64 and have no proplems with them

 

If your talking to me I did check the lash, I checked everything I could except the the compression itself, keep in mind this is an E1 engine in a very early 1963 Datsun 320, I have it running good now so I will let it be till the next issue arises, it also has a new Weber, electronic ignition(aftermarket MG), although I have not changed the cap/rotor, but the MG engine this EI distributor was on ran great.

[Doctor510]

If your talking to me I did check the lash, I checked everything I could except the the compression itself, keep in mind this is an E1 engine in a very early 1963 Datsun 320, I have it running good now so I will let it be till the next issue arises, it also has a new Weber, electronic ignition(aftermarket MG), although I have not changed the cap/rotor, but the MG engine this EI distributor was on ran great.

Plugs @ .032" . points @.017"

[wayno]

Plugs @ .032" . points @.017"

As I said, it has electronic ignition(Crane) out of a MG Midget, so it doesn't have points, and believe it or not it is still wired positive ground and has the stock generator/regulator, this could only happen because of the crane electronic ignition as it is optic and they do not care what way they are wired in the distributor.

It has something to do with that cylinder and the spark plug I use as I changed out #3 and #4 spark plugs and wires and the miss stayed in #4 cylinder, I checked the lash way back, maybe it would not hurt to check again.

I still would like to understand how to use my volt meter to check the Ohms of the spark plug wires/spark plugs I am using, but I don't understand it, distributorguy said something about the wires need to be under 5000ohms, when I check them I get very low numbers, single and very low double digits, nothing close to thousands.

[Dolomite]

Wayno, when testing resistance, start at the low setting and move up till you hit the correct range. When testing voltage, start high and move down. At least that’s what I learned in electronics class in highschool...many years ago.

[noramost]

points 18, plugs 32. The ignition switch will by-pass the start position and the 12 volts will not go to the proper side of the ballice-resistor until you let off a little so run a jumper to the + side of the coil too eliminate this possibility. If this is the problem I can tell you how to clock your switch. Compression is high, must have domed pistons which require 100 octain.

[wayno]

Wayno, when testing resistance, start at the low setting and move up till you hit the correct range. When testing voltage, start high and move down. At least that’s what I learned in electronics class in highschool...many years ago.

I don't get it at all, I have 5 settings in the OHM section, 200, 2000, 20K, 200K, and 20M, the 200, 2000, and 20M don't appear to do much, the 20K shows a 2.79 bouncing up to 2.80 every once in a while, the meter starts with a ". 1", the wire is a foot long, if I put the meter at the 200K setting it starts with "1  ." and when I test the same wire I get 02.8, so then I did the same test with an 18 inch wire and got 3.39 on the 20K setting, I got 03.4 on the 200K setting.

I didn't really like school when I was a kid, so I am not sure what 3.39 on the 20K setting is, my guess would be 3390, does that mean 3390 OHMs resistance?

So then my next question would be if the shorter wires have less resistance than the longer wires would that not be bad that they are not all the same, would it not be better for all the wires to be the same length with the same resistance so they all act the same?

[distributorguy]

2.79 in 20K mode is 2790 Ohms.  That's not bad.  Once you start reading 5's and higher, you'll have an issue.  Ideal would be to get a reading of 1000 in the 2000 (2K) setting.  

 

Yes 3.39K in the 20K setting = 3390 Ohms reading on a 20,000 Ohms scale.  

[wayno]

2.79 in 20K mode is 2790 Ohms.  That's not bad.  Once you start reading 5's and higher, you'll have an issue.  Ideal would be to get a reading of 1000 in the 2000 (2K) setting.  

 

Yes 3.39K in the 20K setting = 3390 Ohms reading on a 20,000 Ohms scale.  

 

Thankyou, so like I said, would it not be best if all the wires were the same length with exactly the same resistance?

 

I ask because I pressure wash for a living and resistance in my hoses can be an issue, if I have too many pressure hoses between the water pump and the wand I lose pressure as there is too much resistance in the lines, 150 feet of pressure hose is about the most I want to use if I can help it, if I have to stretch any farther I use garden hose, I have used just about 400 feet of garden hose and 200 feet of pressure hose just recently(briefly) to clean the sidewalks and curbs in 2 entrances to a neighborhood with an HOA, people that walk around(older people) were complaining the sidewalks were slippery, it also looked bad.

My electric sprayer that I use instead of a pump sprayer has the same issue, I have to use a larger round hose(3/8ths inside diameter) between the pump and the spray wand, if the hose has too small inside diameter by the time the liquid gets to the wand I have no pressure, it was really bad when I used to put shingle oil on Cedar shingle roofs, the thicker the fluid the larger or shorter the hose needs to be, my hose on that piece of equipment is 100 feet long.

 

It might not be the same type of resistance and it might not be or make that much of a difference but asking questions is how I learn, are all your spark plug wires the same length on your Bonneville Salt Flats race truck? 

[distributorguy]

No, the salt flat wires are cut to appropriate lengths.  A few hundred Ohms variation on a HT wire is no big deal.  If you have thousands of Ohms difference, then you have an issue.  I like to see less than 1000 Ohms variation within a set.  I think the race truck wires vary by 100 high to low?  It was too insignificant to care much about.  We have bigger fish to fry.  Its like asking if you can run a 90' hose instead of a 100' hose on your pressure washer.  Does it matter???   No, but it likely matters when you put on a 300' hose.  

[wayno]

No, the salt flat wires are cut to appropriate lengths.  A few hundred Ohms variation on a HT wire is no big deal.  If you have thousands of Ohms difference, then you have an issue.  I like to see less than 1000 Ohms variation within a set.  I think the race truck wires vary by 100 high to low?  It was too insignificant to care much about.  We have bigger fish to fry.  Its like asking if you can run a 90' hose instead of a 100' hose on your pressure washer.  Does it matter???   No, but it likely matters when you put on a 300' hose.  

 

Depends on the type of hose your talking about, garden hose can be stretched out a long ways, I have done over 400 feet recently, as long as there is plenty of water pressure the resistance in the garden hose is overcome, but after 150 feet of pressure washer hose I start losing pressure because of resistance, 200 feet of pressure hose is really pushing it, but it really depends on water availability, lots of city water pressure before the pump means one can add more pressure hoses.

I believe my biggest issue is the water restrictors going into houses, if I try pulling out more water than the restrictor allows on a house faucet it causes me water pressure issues and my pump starts starving, while I always have lots of water coming out of irrigation faucets, you have to understand I have a pump that uses 4.5 gallons per minute which is right on the edge of what the city of Vancouver sets the restrictors at on houses, so if anyone flushes the toilet in the house I lose water pressure which results in losing pressure at the wand which can make me lose my balance when pressure washing certain ways, I have almost fallen off roofs when working near the gutter on a roof and someone flushed the toilet, I need the pressure washer wand to push against me the same all the time.

Well I understand a little better than I did before, but it appears to have been a spark plug issue for that cylinder even though changing that plug to #3 cylinder did not move the miss to #3, that type of plug appears to make #4 cylinder miss, but another plug with less letters/numbers put in that cylinder seems to have fixed the miss issue, I should probably change the other 3 plugs to the same type I am using in #4.