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Need help with ka24e swap!


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#1 chickenbuddy

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 05:17 PM

Hello, thank you for reading.

I have Ben slowly working on a single can ka swap into my 720. I had it running a few weeks ago, everything was ok except the idle was a little bit shifty 900+\-100rpm. I took it for a maiden voyage to start breaking in the motor. 30 min drive on my way back home it died, I thought I ran out of gas. Got gas, manages to fire it up but it would just barely idle regardless of the throttle input. :/ I had it towed home that night.

I finally got around to working on it today. Still can't get it to start. Confused, I started troubleshooting. Fuel, check, nice spray pattern/ injector pulse, 42 psi from pump. Firing order 1342 CCW. Strong spark check, although the plugs were soaked in fuel. Checked cam and crank timing, and then when I got to the disteibutor, I noticed that in the furthest left (ccw) position possible it was a few degrees shy(retarted) from cyl#1 with motor at tdc#1 compression stroke. So I figured I will have to drain the oil and pull the oil pump to reset the dizzy position.

I decided to test my findings, so I pulled the bolts out of distributor clamp to allow it for further adjustment and turned it a few more degrees cw, to line up with #1 plug. It started easily but idled poorly (misfire?) and it was impossible to rev up past 2k exhaust smelled like fuel. I'm getting really crazy with this swap, I'm mostly confused and can't figure it out.

What could change my timing this much? Anything to look out for ?

Any help greatly appreciated.

#2 flatcat19

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 08:07 PM

How long will it hold 42psi? Does it bleed off?

Do you have any codes in the ECM?

You can't hang if your nuts haven't dropped...it's physics


#3 chickenbuddy

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 12:44 AM

Will check leak time tomorrow , thanks for the tip.

Only code shown is 55, which is no fault detected I believe.

#4 Stoffregen Motorsports

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 07:29 AM

Wiring could cause the timing to go out of whack. The TPS, MAF, knock sensor and temp switch all work together to adjust fuel and spark. If the wiring isn't correct, or if something was accidentally deleted/misrouted during the wiring mods, it could do exactly what you're describing.

 

Is the IAC clean and functioning?

 

Did you run the motor before you did the swap?



#5 nl320what

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 07:34 AM

I second the timing chain jumped a couple teeth or more since you said you had to drive to break in the motor..... possibly the chain wasnt installed properly, wrong chain length, or chain tensioner didnt pressurize the slack out of it.

 

I vote to pull timing cover off and verify.

 

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#6 flatcat19

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 07:52 AM

Shouldn't need to remove timing cover to verify chain is installed properly.

Remove valve cover. Turn to TDC indicator on pulley/cover; verify cam lines up to timing mark on top.

You can't hang if your nuts haven't dropped...it's physics


#7 captain720

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 08:43 PM

Shouldn't need to remove timing cover to verify chain is installed properly.

Remove valve cover. Turn to TDC indicator on pulley/cover; verify cam lines up to timing mark on top.

What flat said. You may have to rotate it a couple times to get dot lined up.

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#8 datzenmike

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 07:02 AM

I have a problem believing any L Z or KA can jump the timing chain. I don't think it's physically possible.

 

Set the timing correctly with a timing light or as recommended by the Nissan manual.

 

The oil does not need to be drained to remove the oil pump and reset the CAS. If this was running before, the CAS position would not have changed. If you 're-built' this anything is possible.


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#9 captain720

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 07:38 AM

I don't have trouble believing the chain can jump....... Because I've seen it before. It is followed by a timing chain failure and general catastrophe between 0-150 miles later. If you turn the distributor far enough you can correct a one tooth jump or so, but not for long because it just keeps getting worse then BOOM!

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#10 datzenmike

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 07:49 AM

The distributor isn't affected by the timing chain. It's turned directly by the crank.

 

The guides on the slack side remove almost all the slack. Even without the tensioner.... I just can't see it happening.


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#11 chickenbuddy

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 03:41 PM

hey all, thanks for your helpful replies.

 

i took my oil pump out and reclocked it for the proper position of the reverse d on the dizzy shaft. everything looked right and at TDC my rotor lined up with the #1 cyl plug wire on the cap.

 

here is the strange thing, after i crank it over one full rotation (360 on cam) it no longer lines up. i took the oil pump out twice and reclocked it but everytime it would shift after i would turn the motor by hand or cranked it with my started.

 

pics

 

 

IMG_1066.jpg

 

cam position

 

IMG_1067.jpg

 

crank position

 

IMG_1068.jpg

 

dizzy position after one rotation.

 

???? any ideas?



#12 Roadster-ka

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 04:50 PM

After 1 rotation of the crank, the dist drive will have only turned 180 degrees. It should now be firing #4 cylinder.

#13 flatcat19

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 05:06 PM

Spin twice to return to TDC for #1 cyl.

You can't hang if your nuts haven't dropped...it's physics


#14 chickenbuddy

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 05:47 PM

you didnt read my post carefully, i turned the engine over fully, 360* on cam. if you notice its really close to the proper orientation but for some reason is shifted?



#15 datzenmike

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 07:48 PM

Easy.

 

The woodruff key on the crank snout is broken or missing There's nothing locking the worm gear to the crank and it's slipping.


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#16 Roadster-ka

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 09:52 PM

Are you using the cam gear bolt to rotate the crankshaft. If so, this would put slack in the chain on the drivers side of the engine and the cam and crank would look like they were mistimed.

#17 Stoffregen Motorsports

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 09:10 AM

If this is truly the case, and you're not overlooking something, there is definitely a mechanical failure there somewhere. Whether it's a broken key in the crank, or a bent dist spindle, or a broken dist drive gear on the crank, something is going to be obviously broken.

 

This is one of those problems that begs for stupid simple questions like "is there gas in the tank?"  I could ask questions all day long, but if I were you, I'd sit down with the workshop manual and make sure you're not forgetting or overlooking something. It might not hurt to blow the timing cover off and have a look inside for yourself.



#18 chickenbuddy

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 10:01 PM

im leaning more towards the woodruff key being broken, due to improper installation.

 

i will have to strip the front down and have a look! JOY!

 

ill post more pics as i take stuff apart, i did notice that the gear on the oil pump/dizzy shaft was quite worn, i imagine that it could potentially slip, either way i think that some disassembly will enlighten me on my problem. i hope my crank is ok =]

 

thank you for your replies.