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incorrect assembly rag joint


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#1 DIY 1985

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 12:53 PM

I suspect that the mechanic had the steering shaft rotated 90 degrees at the spline. It's the tilt type B in the factory manual. The bolt heads in the rag joint rub against the v-shaped part on the firewall side of the rubber coupler. In the illustration, I'm not seeing the flat that is milled on the splined shaft as it bolts on to the t-shaped part which bolts to the rubber coupler. I'm suspecting it is rotated because the upper and lower yolk installation is different from the fsm drawing, but there is also a chance of incorrectly swapped parts in the truck's history. Thoughts? Anyone have an image of their working set-up?

#2 datzenmike

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 05:55 PM

The pinch bolt can't be installed without that flat spot on the spline.


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#3 Charlie69

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 05:46 PM

Pictures would really help understanding the problem.



#4 DIY 1985

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 05:38 PM

I'll share photos when I have daylight to work with.

 

However, I am wondering if my rig has a mild body-lift that I never took notice of?  Hence the hard angle at the rag joint.



#5 DIY 1985

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 07:26 AM

Here is a better description, with images, of what is going on.

 

https://sites.google...teering-linkage



#6 datzenmike

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 08:45 PM

So you have the tilt steering column?

 

Is there a small U joint at the steering box?

 

 

A body lift would just place a slightly sharper bend at the U joint on the steering box end.

 

 

I have a tilt steering column in my parts stash. I don't know how complete it is.


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#7 DIY 1985

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Posted Yesterday, 12:03 PM

It's the tilt type. There's a U-joint at the power steering box.

BTW, I gather that the truck has been in a slight bumper bender, but the frame and overall body look legit, small dent and bumper damage on the passenger side.

#8 datzenmike

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Posted Yesterday, 12:24 PM

I'll try to get out after work and have a look but, yes, there is a U joint in the column about where the dash starts and then it should be straight till the steering box. Is the column properly bolted to the dash??? 


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#9 datzenmike

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Posted Yesterday, 02:42 PM

Steering%20FSM%20Exploded.jpg

 

 

You don't have the one marked TB above.

 

You have the one above it which is the tilt steering. You can see the part marked " upper column shaft assy" has a U joint. Picture is blurred.

 

This is mine looking up from underneath. You can see the U joint near the dash with a spline and pinch bolt. Where you have a rag joint there should be another U joint. Then a rag joint at the steering box.

 

2QdU2Uc.jpg

 

 

Here's the front part. It's dirty but U joint and rag joint at the steering box connection.

 

hFXs7Jw.jpg

.

.


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#10 wayno

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Posted Yesterday, 05:57 PM

That whole diagram above is of one tilt steering column assembly for a power steering type truck broken down into 3 sections, the section the steering wheel connects to, the mount tube section and the shaft that goes thru the mount tube and out thru the firewall, and the section that goes to the steering gear itself, power steering columns have 2 u-joints and one rag joint in the middle, that whole diagram is of the TB type.

The 2 photos you posted Dmike are of a tilt column without power steering, at least for a 2wd 720.

The rag joint cannot be at the power steering gear as it will hit the upper control arm on a 2wd 720 truck, I know this because I tried using a non power steering column on a power steering gear, it hit the upper control arm and it was very hard to turn that way.

I do not see anything wrong in the photo, it appears to be put together correctly.

Is that a photo of another rag joint that was used as a reference?


 

 


#11 DIY 1985

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Posted Yesterday, 06:12 PM

You parts were sourced from a manual steering 2wd, or, either form of gear box 4wd?

#12 wayno

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Posted Yesterday, 06:34 PM

You parts were sourced from a manual steering 2wd, or, either form of gear box 4wd?

 

What does this statement mean?

 

Do you have power steering?


 

 


#13 DIY 1985

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Posted Yesterday, 07:07 PM

It must be a tilt, power, 4wd because the manual gear boxes rag joints aren't illustrated with the W-shaped stopper and have two pins and two bolts, instead of 4 bolts?

#14 DIY 1985

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Posted Yesterday, 07:09 PM

I have power steering.

#15 Charlie69

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Posted Yesterday, 07:19 PM

Here is a better description, with images, of what is going on.

 

https://sites.google...teering-linkage

These pictures look to be a 4x4 column.  The cad plated stopper looks to have been bent to get access to the bolts.

 

In your vehicle list under you avatar it does not say 4x4 so I am guessing you have a 2 wheel drive truck.



#16 wayno

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Posted Yesterday, 08:04 PM

All 2wd power steering trucks have the rag joint near the firewall like in the photo below, they all have that "W" bracket, and they only go together one way as the shafts have a flat side where the bolt holding them together goes, they cannot be put together 90 degrees off.

This rag joint in the photo below appears to be put together correctly.

Rag%20Joint%202.jpg


 

 


#17 DIY 1985

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Posted Today, 06:25 AM

Charlie, if you look at the "W" stopper / bracket, it seems to be approximately symmetrical in relation to its captive bolts.  And although the camera perspective is difficult, it is clear by the s-shape of the rubber coupler / rag that an angle is forced by the axis of lower jacket tube assembly at the rubber rag.  Both middle sections of the "W," will at some point, rub against bolts heads attached to the lower column shaft when it rotates into the obtuse part of the bend, and the heads of the bolts are carving into the "W."



#18 wayno

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Posted Today, 09:50 AM

The "W" is only there for one reason, if the rag joint fails you will still be able to steer the vehicle as the "W" captures the upper column shaft arms inside it, it is a safety devise. 

Can you bend the "W" wings for lack of a better description up just enough to clear the bolt heads but still have them clear everything else?


 

 


#19 DIY 1985

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Posted Today, 12:00 PM

Wayno, possibly I could do some bending, but I come from a land cruiser pedigree where it is typical to swap a Saginaw box add two U-joints and get back to driving. Does anyone have an image of a stock 2wd tilt power steering setup at this location, because I'd like to know what is actually at fault?

#20 wayno

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Posted Today, 01:01 PM

This is not a very good photo and this is in a 521 truck I am in the process of doing a conversion on, but it is of a 2wd Datsun/Nissan 720 tilt power steering column on the firewall side, I know this because I have pulled several of them in the past to install them in my Datsun trucks, the problem is I cannot get a photo of any of them as to much stuff is in the way to get a clear photo.

DSCN7696.jpg

I don't know for sure, but I thought the rag joint on the 4wd was at the power steering gear, I will have to look at that next time I see a 4wd 720 in the wrecking yard.