What does it weigh?

[Icehouse]

Lately I've been dreaming of building a Lucky Dog racecar.  There rules allow you to build basically anything.   While doing some research into different engines I ran across a thread comparing a SR20DET to a VQ35 and LS of coarse   .  The take home message was "go LS" which I don't want to do.  I did find it interesting however they said the VQ and SR were within LBS of each other.  This weekend I plan on double checking them.  I borrowed a calibrated load cell from work and machined an adapter for it.  I did a test measure and the Single Cam KA with all accessories, starter, flywheel, exhaust manifold and clutch weights more then the other forum said the VQ weighted.  I plan on measure them all in the same configuration.  Since I could run whatever trans on whatever engine if I really wanted to.  Here some pictures because reading sucks. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

VH45DE 

 

 

 

 

 

L18 Missing carbs.  

 

 

 

 

[Lockleaf]

Real world weights. I love it.

 

People sling weights around all the time but it's hard to know how complete a unit they are talking about.

[datzenmike]

250 260 280 for L16/18/L20B and KAs were 380. FWIW...These were the numbers given from long ago.

 

 That's an S13 KA with heavier block and crank girdle. The D21 should be less.

[Icehouse]

Like I suspected the VQ is way heavier then the SR.  

[datzenmike]

I think I would rather have the larger displacement.

[thisismatt]

That's a rev-up edition VQ if you didn't know. Different than a regular DE.

[Icehouse]

That's a rev-up edition VQ if you didn't know. Different than a regular DE.

 

 

What is difference?  How high does it rev?  

[thisismatt]

The main differences are that the revup has variable exhaust valve timing, not just intake. So it also uses a different ECU and wiring harness, different intake I believe, and at least some different internals. They were only used in 05/06 as I recall and were somewhat plagued by oil consumption issues (lots of speculation as to why...I'm not sure a definitive reason was ever found). I had someone tell me rings were installed all with the ring gaps lined up, blah blah blah. Who knows. It's the motor I have, and eventually I'll get it running, but for sure you need the correct engine harness and ECU (flashed if you want to run it without the IPDM, BCM, and the stock ignition switch/key/transponder

[thisismatt]

Revup was like 300hp/tq whereas the regular DE was 287hp.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I bought a digital crane scale off Amazon recently - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WUI9XPI?tag=viglink20599-20

 

I have been weighing everything I get my hands on. Anyone want to know what a 6L80e trans attached to a Toyota split case weighs? How about an aluminum 5.3 LS?

 

 

[datzenmike]

I think there is a trend towards thinner rings in today's cars to reduce friction and increase mileage. What's the oil that's recommended? I see 5w oil on some newer cars.

[Icehouse]

The main differences are that the revup has variable exhaust valve timing, not just intake. So it also uses a different ECU and wiring harness, different intake I believe, and at least some different internals. They were only used in 05/06 as I recall and were somewhat plagued by oil consumption issues (lots of speculation as to why...I'm not sure a definitive reason was ever found). I had someone tell me rings were installed all with the ring gaps lined up, blah blah blah. Who knows. It's the motor I have, and eventually I'll get it running, but for sure you need the correct engine harness and ECU (flashed if you want to run it without the IPDM, BCM, and the stock ignition switch/key/transponder

 

 

Wait I missed what motor swap you are doing?   I got everything for mine.  It was in a drift car for a bit.  Head gasket blew so I got everything minus trans for 300 flashed ECU and all.  I rode in the car when it was good too.  Beast motor.  The dude actually said it was just as much power as his LS2.  

 

 

 

I bought a digital crane scale off Amazon recently - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WUI9XPI?tag=viglink20599-20

 

I have been weighing everything I get my hands on. Anyone want to know what a 6L80e trans attached to a Toyota split case weighs? How about an aluminum 5.3 LS?

 

 

 

 

 

Wow the LS is a lot heavier then I expected.  I'm sure with all the accessories and exhaust its going to be in the 450 range.  Including the clutch and flywheel.  

 

I Just wanted an idea of what a 510 would drive like with a VQ.  I'm going to measure my SR when I pull off the turbo to do all the gaskets with a KA exhaust set on top.  Since I have a NA SR it will be about the weight I have now.   

[Lockleaf]

Anybody have any thoughts on how different in weight a vq30 vs a vq35? I keep tossing about the idea of an obd1 maxima vq30 with 350z upper and lower oil pan and trans (and various other components).

 

OR vq35 swap but with obd1 timing components, run on an obd1 maxima ecu.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Wait I missed what motor swap you are doing? I got everything for mine. It was in a drift car for a bit. Head gasket blew so I got everything minus trans for 300 flashed ECU and all. I rode in the car when it was good too. Beast motor. The dude actually said it was just as much power as his LS2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow the LS is a lot heavier then I expected. I'm sure with all the accessories and exhaust its going to be in the 450 range. Including the clutch and flywheel.

 

I Just wanted an idea of what a 510 would drive like with a VQ. I'm going to measure my SR when I pull off the turbo to do all the gaskets with a KA exhaust set on top. Since I have a NA SR it will be about the weight I have now.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

 

Wait I missed what motor swap you are doing? I got everything for mine. It was in a drift car for a bit. Head gasket blew so I got everything minus trans for 300 flashed ECU and all. I rode in the car when it was good too. Beast motor. The dude actually said it was just as much power as his LS2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow the LS is a lot heavier then I expected. I'm sure with all the accessories and exhaust its going to be in the 450 range. Including the clutch and flywheel.

 

I Just wanted an idea of what a 510 would drive like with a VQ. I'm going to measure my SR when I pull off the turbo to do all the gaskets with a KA exhaust set on top. Since I have a NA SR it will be about the weight I have now.

450? No. The intake weighs virtually nothing, the exhaust is headers, so nothing. The weight you see there is with the crank pulley and water pump. The accessory drive weighs about 25 pounds, so all in, it's not much over 400 pounds.

 

At 325 hp stock, I think it's a nice package.

[thisismatt]

Wait I missed what motor swap you are doing? I got everything for mine. It was in a drift car for a bit. Head gasket blew so I got everything minus trans for 300 flashed ECU and all. I rode in the car when it was good too. Beast motor. The dude actually said it was just as much power as his LS2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow the LS is a lot heavier then I expected. I'm sure with all the accessories and exhaust its going to be in the 450 range. Including the clutch and flywheel.

 

I Just wanted an idea of what a 510 would drive like with a VQ. I'm going to measure my SR when I pull off the turbo to do all the gaskets with a KA exhaust set on top. Since I have a NA SR it will be about the weight I have now.

I have the same motor. VQ35DE revup. Have a zfever flashed ECU and close to finishing the wiring. Will be for my 521 now that I had to sell my 510 a few years ago. I have a 6sp cd09 trans but also the 6sp from an Xterra vq40 which has a much better shifter location (on top, not way extended off the back). I just need to see if it will modify or swap bellhousings.

[Z23T]

You wouldn't happen to have a VG30 or a VG33 at your shop to weigh would you? 

[Icehouse]

450? No. The intake weighs virtually nothing, the exhaust is headers, so nothing. The weight you see there is with the crank pulley and water pump. The accessory drive weighs about 25 pounds, so all in, it's not much over 400 pounds.

 

At 325 hp stock, I think it's a nice package.

 

 

Soon we will see who's guess is closer :)  I weigh them with clutch, flywheel, starter.  All the goodies. 

 

 

I have the same motor. VQ35DE revup. Have a zfever flashed ECU and close to finishing the wiring. Will be for my 521 now that I had to sell my 510 a few years ago. I have a 6sp cd09 trans but also the 6sp from an Xterra vq40 which has a much better shifter location (on top, not way extended off the back). I just need to see if it will modify or swap bellhousings.

 

 

You should leave the stock drum brakes.  That will make it feel so much faster!  

 

You wouldn't happen to have a VG30 or a VG33 at your shop to weigh would you? 

 

 

Yep!  Hopefully have the weight in a week or two.   :)

[HOGIE]

What’s the weight on that single cam KA? Your pic was cut off

[Draker]

What’s the weight on that single cam KA? Your pic was cut off

 

358.21 lbs

[Tom1200]

A couple notes on V8s:

 

On the LS the clutch, pressure plate and flywheel are 40lbs give or take a few, so from 371 that takes you up to 411, add the accessory drive and your at 436, headers and intake are going to add another 20-30lbs voila you're at 456. I'm sure there are also some miscellaneous bits as well that add a few pounds. You could probably find a lighter flywheel and other bits to bring the weight down so possibly as light as 435-440lbs. The other factor people forget about the transmission; an LS trans is 125lbs. So the combination is very near 600lbs.

 

Ford 5.0 motors are very compact and with aluminum heads, manifold and other bitsI've seen actual weights at 424lbs. The T5 is around 75-80lbs. A lot of British car guys use the combo because even at 500lbs it's still 50-80lbs lighter than the stock 4 cylinder motor.

 

For comparison I weighed my A12 with all the accessories clutch and even oil. The headers and flat slide carbs took a bunch of weight off the motor so it came in at 183lbs. The 56 series 4 speed is 38lbs, so all up is 221lbs The A15 is 195lbs combined with the 60 series box the total package is 253lbs. This combo is making around 105-110hp and will finally out drag a stock Miata. Now as sad as that sounds remember that a stock Miata will out drag a stock 240Z.

 

Now for a street car the weight doesn't matter; were talking 250-300lb difference between a race prepped A-series to a V8. The difference from an L16-L20 & 5 speed combo is going to be as little as 125 and as much as 200lbs.

 

My fabricator pal has changed my thought process; a KA24 as the pictures above demonstrate is all of 50lbs lighter than a 5.0 and 100-150lbs of an LS motor & tranny install. This is true of most 4 cylinder motors. Add in turbos and there is no weight savings.

 

A standard KA is going to make around 130whp versus 250-400 for the stock V8s. Now I don't particularly like the exhaust note of American V8s but from a power standpoint they make sense.

 

Datsuns are light so they don't need much to make them scoot. Also once you get them up to 175whp they start to go well (read out drag a modern Camry) At 200whp you could manage some 1/4 mile times in the 13s. Datsuns are also about handling but alas they have a really narrow track (most 70s cars do) and so that driver in that shiny new 3800lb Mustang or Camaro will leave you behind in the twisty bits if they're the least bit confident. I'm driving the wheels of the 1200 but turn the same exact lap times in students 911s & Z06 Vettes while driving the whole course in 3rd gear.

 

So my usual short story long point is put in whatever motor makes you happy and don't worry about the weight. If the weight bothers you than stop eating Bonbons & buckets of ice cream, load on brain before you go to the drag strip and have your girlfriend drive (let's face it she looks better behind the wheel anyway)

 

Now with that said keep the weights coming as it makes for some interesting reading

[nl320what]

I dong have any consistant weight data on a RX7 13B rotary, but it is an amazing engine in a light car or truck.

 

Design wise I'm still in awe over it: 3 moving parts, oil supply uncontaminated, no valve adjustments, Compact size, over 100hp high revving fun.

[Lockleaf]

Constant oil consumption, horrible fuel economy, terrible to start in the cold.

 

But yeah, they are neat. I have a 12A in my garage

[datzenmike]

Evolutionary dead end.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Rotary engines are basically an air compressor. The more you can get into it, the more power it makes.

 

I guess all engines are like that, but rotaries have less moving parts, less drag and parasitic loss.  A great idea, but yes...ultimately a dead end.