California Fires

[paradime]

 You said that it was' their fault for living' there. I said a 'result of living there'. So if this pisses you off, if you think this was somehow a criticism.... well you'll just just have to find it within yourself to not be pissed off. Take a deep breath....

 

Wow, Out of respect for others I'm taking this to PM. Not turning this thread into another stage for the King Rat.

[Fetch]

Mike reads to be a smart person, I don't berate him for his opinions.

 

I remember back in about '69 or '70 fighting a fire around our house. I was about 12, there were no evacuations, we stood and protected our property with water and shovels. I remember the planes flying low dropping fire retardent not 50 yards from us. Pumper trucks using our pool to refill. Scared as hell but, we saved our home.

[KoHeartsGPA]

He's smart all right, but sometimes his judgement needs moderation.....

[paradime]

Sorry Flech, I shouldn't have gone off on Mike in your thread like that. Trust, our style disagreements go back a long way. I have skin in this tragic event and I felt his critical opinion was obtuse and disrespectful. I'll be the first to admit though, I have an itchy "trigger" finger with this stuff. KO don't even think it. ;)

 

Friends just posted these picts on facebook of what's left of their family's home in Napa. Not their primary residence though. Shitty 

 

 

[125 CSL]

More evac orders. Looks like control is still a ways off,....

 

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/14/officials-issue-new-evacuation-orders-crews-respond-to-new-lake-county-fire/

 

Officials issue new evacuation orders, crews respond to new Lake County fire

 

from the write up-

 

The winds started picking up around 1 a.m. just east of Sonoma, but a little before 3 a.m., “that’s when the hill exploded,” said a Cal Fire firefighter, who declined to give his name because he was not authorized to speak publicly.

The Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office issued orders for people to evacuate the area along Highway 12 between Adobe Canyon Road in Kenwood and Calistoga Road in Santa Rosa, including both sides of Highway 12 and all side roads in between. Everybody needs to evacuate westbound on Highway 12 to Santa Rosa immediately, law enforcement said.

[angliagt]

                      This bad - WAY BAD.I'm dealing with moving cross-country,

& all of the stress that goes with it,leaving an area that I've lived in all my life,

but  then I consider what some people down in that area are going through,

losing everything they have.

[KoHeartsGPA]

Devastating pics, ya agreed on itchy trigger finger....yeh.... trying hard not to think it....

[Figbuck]

It is profoundly sad how ignorant many of the posts in this thread are. 

 

The situation is already horrific beyond imagination, and it's not over. 

 

The lasting impact will be felt for generations.

 

 

Earthquakes... gimme a break... I rode out the '57, The Alaska in '64, The Hollister in '84, the Loma Preita in '89... and two day later was working on 5 stories of scaffolding for two aftershocks... 5.3 & 5.0  ... watched the Marina District burn and the Cypress Structure collapse on live TV. 

 

In 1995 I was at Laguna Seca for the IndyCar Races. Sunday after the races I went down to the Beach in Seaside to watch the sunset. It had been a spectacular warm fall day. Looking out to the north west was a giant brown cloud hugging the horizon. It was smoke blown by an east wind that obscured the sun in a red-brown haze... in an otherwise clear blue sky. I could smell a faint odor of smoke.

 

90 miles away the Oakland Hills were on fire! There are may similarities to this Sonoma event. So it is not surprising that something like this could happen. It's still early in the fire season.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here to say that none of you have ever read or heard of Raymond Dasman. Do your homework kids so you don't sound stupid. Dasman already hashed over all your lame observations 45 years ago. In his book; Destruction of California, his prediction have come true.

 

 

One of my High School friends was in Santa Rosa FD then became a Captain in Sabastapol, then retired as an Incident Commander for Cal Fire. Hasn't been heard from for days. So many friends and friend's of friends haven't been heard from and we hope they are just evacuated... or something. Don't know. It's not over. Calistoga has been evacuated. 12 people are sticking it out and the Mayor said they are on their own... all resources are tasked to other locations.  

 

The size and scope of this is almost unfathomable. This ain't gonna buff out anytime soon. The economic impact will certainly be beyond anything we have seen.

 

I was planning on driving to the Bay Area next week... can't do it. I got two messages from living people west of the freeway that are chilling. They are frightened out of their minds, sitting up in the hills watching the valley on fire. Don't come down here Man, the air sucks and people are freaking out left and right.

[datzenmike]

Jarrell, who called Dasmann the Darwin of the ecological movement, said Dasmann insisted that ecologists learn from the indigenous peoples living in threatened environments.

 

"In a national park, the first thing we do is get rid of the people," Jarrell said. "He said, 'These people have been living here for thousands of years; let's let them be the stewards.' His inclusion of human beings into this equation of conservation biology is one of his greatest contributions."

[paradime]

We live in a culture of destruction disguised as progress. The modern Wine Country could learn a great deal from The Wappo tribe (the native inhabitants) in how to live in harmony with the land. I wouldn't argue with that at all, but how do we strike an ecological balance in a social culture of "progress"? In the past 50 years since Destruction of California was published, environmentalists have been demonized for disrupting progress by saving the Spotted Owl's natural habitat and so on.

 

150 years ago when Wine Country was still being divided up for residential and farming occupation, the concept of environmental impact wasn't in their consciousness. By 1860s the region had more than 170 wineries in operation but it remained very rural agricultural land for the next 100 years. No one foresaw the wine gold rush of recognition and how it would rapidly transform the economic and physical landscape. Certainly not the rural city planners back then.

 

As the father of environmentalism, Dasmann was a good 20 years ahead of his time and Napa 20 years behind. Could they have done better in navigating their expansion to help avoid what happened? I don't think anyone would argue that. Some one I know has often said, hind sight is always 20/20, but that doesn't heal the scars of trauma from a horrific event like this. When the smoke settles I hope these city planners consider what the native people new for centuries.

 

That being said, Dasmann might also have something to say about Laguna Seca and IndyCar Racing.  :rolleyes:

[datzenmike]

Well this is the result of building in these areas. Like building in a earthquake, tsunami, lowland flood or avalanche prone area. How could they not know that history has shown that fires blow through here every year. Why the surprise? This is shitty but totally to be expected.

 

I guess it's ok to discuss the factors leading to this catastrophy now then? But not a week ago? When you called me names and tried to put words in my mouth??? Then took it to private message so you could continue the same but no one would see it. I do believe you simply just don't like me Paradime, and it's showing.  

 

You are such a DICK.

[KoHeartsGPA]

Agreed, KING THAT is a DICK :)

[racerx]

Good thing is that missing person is much lower now and read that its 65 % contained and should be raining soon.

[datzenmike]

I heard rain Thurs..... maybe. 

[paradime]

 

I guess it's ok to discuss the factors leading to this catastrophy now then? But not a week ago? When you called me names and tried to put words in my mouth??? Then took it to private message so you could continue the same but no one would see it. I do believe you simply just don't like me Paradime, and it's showing.  

 

You are such a DICK.

 

Thanks for your contribution Mike. It's been very helpful. You and I have argued passionately about lots of stuff, and have never taken it personally. I have always consider you a friend and still do.

[datzenmike]

Passionately? So that's what it was. Maybe lighten up on your passion a bit.  It sure didn't help this post. Don't bother sending any more p/ms on this it's going nowhere anyway.

[DaBlist]

No, not the fires of passion

[maltese]

[Daryl]

Drove up to Willits Friday, devastation just awful. Can't even imagine the scope of Santa Rosa. RIP to the souls. Firefighters, Thank You!

 

Fire Camp at Sonoma County Fairgrounds:

https://www.facebook.com/DodrillPhoto/videos/10155732345982145/

[tr8er]

Never been more exhausted in my life, that fighting forest fires. I can't imagine getting into trouble and make life or death decisions after one of those 12 hour days. Physically, and mentally dead after that. For these guys, I'll add emotionally. Hoping for lots of rain this week.

[KoHeartsGPA]

Agreed, firefighters are awesome, thank you for limiting the damage and saving lives!

[paradime]

Passionately? So that's what it was. Maybe lighten up on your passion a bit.  It sure didn't help this post. Don't bother sending any more p/ms on this it's going nowhere anyway.

 

The last pm we shared about this thread was three days ago. I though it was over.

 

Sorry your feelings were hurt Mike, that was not my intention. 

[datzenmike]

Meh, whatever.

[FrankRizzo]

Huge changes coming to the code for attic venting in Cali me thinks.... Ive never seen Spanish tile roof houses burn like this before in my entire life. Everyone thought that they were "non-combustable" and therefore safe...but the flying embers got into the attics via the vents and venting systems needed to keep the heat and moisture at bay.

 

Overheard someone talking about these Vulcan Vents and it got me thinking (disclaimer, Ive got nothing to do with them but it looks like a really good idea in hindsight):

 

http://www.vulcantechnologies.com/allProducts.php