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Starter is failing...Replacement options???


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#1 Angela

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 06:58 AM

Hello fellow Ratsuners,

 

The stock starter in my '71 510 Wagon is beginning to fail. I have been warned & have read through various threads about cheap, remanufactured units. Wondering what else might fit, what others have done in this situation? How difficult would it be to rebuild mine? 

 

Please help me figure this out.

 

Many thanks in advance for advice  :angel:

 

Angela


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#2 banzai510(hainz)

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 07:02 AM

Troy Ermish sells a  L motor starter these are brand new . Dont know who makes them. (The 510 outlet) they in the 220$ range). I havent used one myself. unless soemone else can chim in on how good they are.

 

I get the typical rebuilds for 30-40 $ but they dont last.   I went thru 2 alternators(35ampers) in athe last 2 years on my 521.  Even the local rebuider doesnt seem to get them right. Last one the selinoid failed(maybe he get Chinese Selinoids)

 

I used to get Nissan rebuilds(and spares,50ampers) but I have them on my 510 and seem good

 

 

I alwasy have a spare starter ready to go. and as a trooubel shotting porpose also in case the key switch is the proplem as these switches are getting old and a light relay is soemtimes a fix to a weak key switch.

 

TSIAUTOMOTIVE.COM HAS THE SAME STARTER i BELIEVE CHEAPER THAN TROY 200$. its a British parts house but sells Datsun starters also. Best to call to make sure. if a adapter is needed for you aplication(L motor)


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#3 datzenmike

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 07:28 AM

Assuming the battery is good? Terminal clamps tight? You could jumper another car to it. If problem goes away could be battery.

 

Clicking could be the solenoid but could also be weak start signal from the ignition switch caused by long (small gauge) wire runs. Got to be 15-20 feet from battery to ignition switch and back out the harness to the starter. Get or borrow a remote push button starter switch that connects to the battery.  If it starts every time with it then look up 'Hot Start Relay. Ratsun' on Google.


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#4 Draker

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 07:39 AM

A good used one is always an option. But you never know how long that will last either.

 

Sucks that the rebuilds are such junk. Going though a similar situation with an Alternator right now. Can get a refurbished one off the shelf.. but I refuse.

 

That being said, I usually carry a spare alternator and fuel pump in the car with me and a set of tools. 


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#5 racerx

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 07:47 AM

My AutoZone or oereilly starter lasted about 10 years and I think its life time warranty. But get it checked out before replacing, could be something else. Keep the receipt and log it so that you know when it was replaced.

#6 flyerdan

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:06 AM

If you get the repeated click, click, click and it finally catches and spins it over chances are good that it's the end cap of the solenoid.  There are two square head copper bolts that bridge the battery cable to the starter body, and the contact disc erodes them down.  Turning the bolt heads 180 degrees so that the new half is in the contact area makes it work like a new one.  If the starter hasn't been off since 71, and works fine otherwise, it would be a good idea to take it apart and clean out the gunk and freshen up the lube in the bendix and bearings.  It's not that difficult and best of all, inexpensive.


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#7 banzai510(hainz)

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 10:14 AM

Flyerdan that a good one to know about the bolt heads. I also heard that with rare flywheels. people just flipping the ring over when the theeth are worn.

 

My autozone and O riley alternators are both the same place of reman. Mexico.  then I got both new ones from same places say both reman in China and the housing are not even Hitachi or Mitshibshi units. these are chinese cased units now.  So they getting them from same supplier.

 

 

My Last O riley alternator did last alot long a few years agao but reman was in a different country. Think It was a USA reman.  they keep changing.

 

 

I order a new 35 amp alt from Partsgeek.com. Looking into it I think its chinese as the photo shows the same units I got from autozone and O rileys are reman.  However I havent got it yet.Maybe it will be better as they make volvos and caddllacs in china now

 I also ordered a 521 speedo cable and when it showed up there was no cable in the housing WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I emailed them and heard nothing back so I will see.

 

 

but if anybody has a TroyErmish/TSI starter lets us know if worth buying.


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#8 wayno

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 01:19 PM

I ended up finding a good aftermarket gear reduction starter for my work truck(LZ23), I could not buy a starter that would last even 3 months, I even tried Z22/24 starters and they didn't last either, the best ones are the old grungy looking ones in the wrecking yards, but I have not seen an old one in a while now. 


 

 


#9 banzai510(hainz)

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 01:25 PM

Ted at TSI automotive wrote back and said no adapters and its a  NEW Japan made Denso starter..

 

I assume Nippondenso. Like having a brand new Toyota starter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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#10 MikeRL411

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 06:06 PM

Way too many years ago I had this problem with the starter on my RL411 [same as 1600 roadster].  At that time Datsun really cared!  The Gardena parts manager contacted Yokohama's foreign parts branch.  They researched the real unit.  Zero!  Obviously no new units.  All factory rebuilt units gone.  None on back order!  Did I know what parts I needed to do a rebuild ? was the question?  The Yokohama section provided me with a list of all in stock appropriate starter parts and asked which I needed!  [Obviously pre Renault service.].  I ordered my needed parts and rebuilt my starter and am still using it.  A friend at work later also gave me a surplus Roadster starter, so I am sitting in fat heaven for starters.



#11 datzenmike

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 06:11 PM

I'm using a gear reduction starter from a Maxima 6 cylinder. I had about 12 L and Z series starters. Took a bunch to Canby.


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#12 Stoffregen Motorsports

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 06:34 AM

Gear reduction starters aren't as hard to find as it may seem since a lot of the aftermarket gear reduction starters used on Chevy V8's are based off the Nissan design. If you had a nose adapter from an actual Nissan starter, an aftermarket Chevy gear reduction starter should work.

 

But...

 

I have a shop that I use to rebuild my alternators and starters. I use this shop because I was tired of getting crappy rebuilt units at the auto parts store. The personal touch of having one rebuilt means that you get someone who knows what fails and how to upgrade them. And they are usually pennies on the dollar to have one professionally rebuilt vs buying an equivalent new or rebuilt unit.

 

Boyle Future Tech in Auburn, CA is the shop I use, but I bet there's a shop in every major area. I did a simple google search for your area and didn't find anything, but I bet a call to one of your restoration shops in the area will get you a recommendation.



#13 datzenmike

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 06:45 AM

Wonder what gets replaced when rebuilt? Bushings, cleaning, brushes and the solenoid? Seems like it would be worth doing yourself.


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#14 Angela

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 06:46 AM

Assuming the battery is good? Terminal clamps tight? You could jumper another car to it. If problem goes away could be battery.

Clicking could be the solenoid but could also be weak start signal from the ignition switch caused by long (small gauge) wire runs. Got to be 15-20 feet from battery to ignition switch and back out the harness to the starter. Get or borrow a remote push button starter switch that connects to the battery. If it starts every time with it then look up 'Hot Start Relay. Ratsun' on Google.


Thanks Mike,

Yes, I have confirmed the battery is good & had my Datsun buddy (mechanic) take a look/listen. Wagon starts just a bit sluggish but starts...then you hear kind of a high pitched spinning noise from the starter. He said my starter sounds like it's beginning to fail. That's as far as I got. I did some searching here & read about remanufactured units being mostly unreliable. I certainly hope not to spend Troy Ermish prices on a new one if there's a reasonably priced alternative. Will a roadster starter work on my L16 manual wagon? Anyone have thoughts/opinions on the Bosch units found on eBay? What should I look for in determining a reasonable replacement? What should I avoid?
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#15 datsunwizard

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 07:17 AM

I rebuild all of my starters and alternators ( the original Hitachi's). On the starters, it's usually the brushes are worn to short to make contact with the commutator. The hardest part is unsoldering the old and resoldering the new. You can get the replacements from Rockauto, etc. Some times it's the contact in the solenoid as was mentioned above, replacements are available.



#16 banzai510(hainz)

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 07:48 AM

TSI automotive is the same starter  as Troys but at 200 plus shipping

 

I had a Nissan rebuild Hitachi Gear Reduction also 179$. It lasted longer but the selinoid still goes bad.

I daily drive my 521daily so it maybe see 4 or 5 times a day on the starter. The 521 has eating many a starter and alternator that I can change them out pretty fast now

 

I have too many alt and starters lying around anyways taking up space time to buy good ones

 

 

I will try the Denso when I get a chance

 

 

Angela

Just buy the Denso from TSI. It will be the last starter you ever need. Your key switch will go bad before this starter wears out.


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#17 Stoffregen Motorsports

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 08:15 AM

Wonder what gets replaced when rebuilt? Bushings, cleaning, brushes and the solenoid? Seems like it would be worth doing yourself.

Me too. I wonder what they do, but as in any profession, they will have knowledge that I will have to learn. The parts knowledge (which parts to buy and from whom) and the technical knowledge (how to do the job and what to look out for) both come with years of experience. I brought my John Deere diesel starter in a few years ago and they suggested a modification that I would not have known about. Tricks of the trade make shops like this invaluable to me.

 

Do it myself? Not for the $100 or less they charge on the parts and labor.



#18 banzai510(hainz)

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 05:01 AM

Rockauto has brand new 35amp alternators  fro 510/521  for 65$. Im sure made in China but might be better than the rebuilds as alot of western car are now made in china.

My last 2 alternators(rebuild in mexico) didnt make 12k miles)


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#19 datzenmike

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 05:12 AM

My bet is that the high wear parts like contacts and bushings are totally inferior making them worse than an original Hitachi starter taken from a wrecking yard. REAL alternators and starters  are hundreds of dollars and they give them away for $65????? This means they are worth far far less to them so throw in a 'worth less' lifetime warranty. 

 

Would be nice to have a supply of the original brushes, contacts, bearings and bushings.


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#20 banzai510(hainz)

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:01 AM

I did brushes once on alternators and its hard to solder if you dont have flux as most people dont and a good solder iron. By the time a tore tha alternator apart I said fuck it gt it fixed then the bearing came apart. and just get a clean junk rebuild from O rileys.   Even soem rebuilders are using junk parts now

 

 

I know one can get brand new GM alt but for a 521 I like the light small 35ampers since ai have L16 with small bolt set up.

Wish Mean Grean had alternators for Datsuns


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