California approved engine swaps.

[tzagi]

Wrong.

 

The frame is also stamped and if ever someone suspects, it's an easy matter to check that they dio not match. Wow fucking with the state and federal emission laws??? You would be jailed so friggin fast. Yes you may not be caught but what about the poor guy you sell it too. It could easily come back on you for fraud.

 

'76 do not have disc brakes, another give away.

Not wrong. and no one cares about frame numbers.

If your frame is rusted and you replace it with another? what then?when you buy a frame does it need a title?

Think about it, by law there is no part of a car or truck that you cannot replace to effect the title status.

PS...and if you add disc brakes on your 76..then what.  I done that in the past on a 73, nasty biz...you gotta alter the a-arms...would have been simpler to just change the frame.

[thisismatt]

Wait, so I can put a 73 Datsun vin on a Ford Raptor and make it smog exempt? Sweet!

[tzagi]

Old phrase...

Everybody pees in the pool...just not from the diving board!

So no...but if you are to graft a 620 body onto a raptor frame and drive train...(I seen much worst), come to think about it....not a bad idea at all.

[datzenmike]

Not wrong. and no one cares about frame numbers.

If your frame is rusted and you replace it with another? what then?when you buy a frame does it need a title?

Think about it, by law there is no part of a car or truck that you cannot replace to effect the title status.

PS...and if you add disc brakes on your 76..then what.  I done that in the past on a 73, nasty biz...you gotta alter the a-arms...would have been simpler to just change the frame.

 

Wrong again. Why do they put VINs on the frame?  Cause most dim wits won't go to the bother to change them and really can't anyway. Putting a '74 vin tag on a '79 does not make it a '74.  Pre '78s didn't have disc brakes. The point is an inspector may know this. Now you might have a '76 with a disc brake swap but he's already suspicious now and will check some things. Body and VIN tags are easy to swap. Frames are not. Shit like that will catch up with you.

[wayno]

Fact is that they don't give a shit about frame numbers till they do give a shit, then they will scrutinize with a vengeance.

[tzagi]

Fact is that they don't give a shit about frame numbers till they do give a shit, then they will scrutinize with a vengeance.

Please provide one documented example.

Just one will do.

Over 30 years I have swapped many frames, built frankensteins. and much worst.

NEVER EVER have I had ANY issues with the DMV and or any other law enforcement agency. if anything, I had nothing but thumbs up from them.

There is no need for the scare tactics.

[1979_datsun_620]

yikes haha 

Why do you all like to go on rants?

Argue with your wife fellas... 

[wayno]

I am realistic, this is a subject that I can relate to as all my custom builds are on newer frames/chassis, I can get rid of a frame without a title, but I need a title to get rid of any body part in my state of Washington, I need a title to get rid of a door, truck lid, hood, anything having to do with the cab/shell.

But in my builds I am not trying to change the cab VIN tags to another year, I am not putting a 520 VIN tag on a 521 or vice-versa, the VIN tag and title stay with that cab.

Now taking a VIN tag off a 1974 Datsun 620 and putting it on a 1979 Datsun 620 is fraud(wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain),

fraud is a felony in most states.

All my custom builds are made with all the major parts(chassis/frames, engines, wiring harnesses) taken from non-emission year vehicles, I do not change the year of the cabs.

 

I suspect one day when you try to cross the state border from say Oregon to California if your vehicle don't meet their emission standards they will not let you cross, and they will have a list, and anything older than say 20 years will not meet their standards unless it has a collector plate maybe, you say that can never happen, well it already has happened, semi trucks have to be on their list to cross into California, California is what it is, the very few dictating to the many, all I ask is when one moves out of that state that you leave the cancerous politics in that state when you move, don't bring them here or take them to any other state for that matter.

[racerx]

No rants here. We just don't want people to get mislead. As I stated earlier each state or even county will have their own set of smog laws and people need to do their homework prior to buying an old car. People will assume things and can inherit headaches or worse the state will come down hard on someone who bought a vehicle and things did not add up, like wrong engine for that year or wrong frame, specially if that vehicle was transferred from one state to another. People can make fun of dmv or their workers but once your car is deemed unpassable for smog, then who will laughing then.

[datzenmike]

Please provide one documented example.

Just one will do.

Over 30 years I have swapped many frames, built frankensteins. and much worst.

NEVER EVER have I had ANY issues with the DMV and or any other law enforcement agency. if anything, I had nothing but thumbs up from them.

There is no need for the scare tactics.

 

Even if it's only for your use and never sold you are still in defiance of the law. Do they check... mostly no ... but they can and will if suspicious enough.

 

Actually there is no need to say "I do it all the time there's never a problem." Someone may actually take this poor advice and get caught. I think on the whole, it's wrong, and people need to realize the risks. State and federal law enforcement may decide to make an example of you for being a chop shop.

 

http://www.boss302.com/legal.htm

 

shit happens...

[]2eDeYe]

Please provide one documented example.

Just one will do.

Over 30 years I have swapped many frames, built frankensteins. and much worst.

NEVER EVER have I had ANY issues with the DMV and or any other law enforcement agency. if anything, I had nothing but thumbs up from them.

There is no need for the scare tactics.

 

 

WA state checks the frame numbers on every vehicle inspection. If you do a frame swap, you need the titles for both vehicles and you will get a new title issued after inspection. 

 

If you build a custom vehicle with a pile of tube, you need a receipt for the purchase of that tube before they will issue a title. 

 

 

It's not scare tactics, it is what about what is legal and what is not. You may have gotten away with it in the past, but that does not mean you will get away with it next time. 

[nl320what]

If a cops suspects your vehicle isnt stock or street legal, they can tow it away immediately at your expense.

 

Then will make you go through a full inspection to match frame VIN and title.  The smog ref will then look at motor, smog equipment, against the VIN and see if its legit for the year.

 

If you make any changes to your vehicles frame or engine, you have to fill out a Statement of Facts with DMV to determine how they want to rape you or pull you through the coals basically.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

You know...there is another way.

but first..an introduction,  what makes vehicle A year x?

Farme? cab? body?.  No to all. what makes a vehicle a 76 instead of a 79 is the vin plates and associated title.

Shop around for a junked 76 or older and buy the title and plates, even from out of state...doesn't matter,  transfer (rivet) them to your 79, go register it.

Win win.

Done that a few times over the years, never had an issue, once the dmv inspector (Reno Nevada) even complimented on the "good job"

I haven't read all the responses to this, but I have to comment anyway.

 

What you are describing is called VIN fraud. The law basically states intent as the motivating factor in prosecuting VIN fraud and if your intent is to circumvent the emissions testing process then this qualifies as intent to defraud. If caught, they will seize your vehicle and likely hit you with a fine. Remember all those Land Rovers that were seized by the feds a few years back? Those were imports that "got around" the system by manipulating the numbers. They all got crushed.

 

There are crafty ways around this, but simply changing VIN tags is begging to get caught.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

But it's government workers you're talking about here.. my dmv didn't even know or check my frame vin. 

If your car or truck registration ever becomes past due and dropped from the CA DMV system (after 4 years of non reg, I believe), then it has to go through a VIN verification where they DO check for frame numbers. So if it the registration is always paid up, and it never leaves the state to be registered somewhere else, you will likely never have a problem.

 

Why do I know so much about VIN verifications and VIN fraud? Because in my business I can't afford to do anything sketchy. I've been around this block a time or two.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Not wrong. and no one cares about frame numbers.

If your frame is rusted and you replace it with another? what then?when you buy a frame does it need a title?

Think about it, by law there is no part of a car or truck that you cannot replace to effect the title status.

This is the "intent" part I was referring to. Your intention here would be to replace a rusty frame.

 

I told you there are ways around it, and sometimes all you need is a well crafted, well rehearsed story.

[racerx]

Lets be smart about this...don't say how you can get around smog on social media or forums. Your leaving bread crumbs for the govt. to follow. Lets just say some of us work for the government.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Let's refer to the story of Grandpa's axe. I own an axe that once belonged to my grandfather. The head has been replaced a few times and so has the handle. I've replaced the handle once since my grandfather owned the axe, and my father replaced the head once before I got it from him, but it's still Grandpa's axe.

 

The same can be applied to motor vehicles.

 

Intent is key here. That's all I'm saying.

[Dguy210]

Let's refer to the story of Grandpa's axe. I own an axe that once belonged to my grandfather. The head has been replaced a few times and so has the handle. I've replaced the handle once since my grandfather owned the axe, and my father replaced the head once before I got it from him, but it's still Grandpa's axe.

 

The same can be applied to motor vehicles.

 

Intent is key here. That's all I'm saying.

Ship of Theseus paradox is the original version.

 

For cars this has been called "Ship of Theseus fraud" when you replace too many components.

 

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyd_Coddington

 

"In his later days, he began registering cars that were essentially completely custom fabrications as antique automobiles, avoiding major emissions restrictions and tax liabilities. California officials considered this a "ship of Theseus" fraud, claiming that so many central elements were replaced, the cars ceased to be the same entity. Coddington was charged with a misdemeanor and pleaded guilty on April 7, 2005."

[silverback510]

anybody have any pointers as far as getting a bone stock 1970 Japanese bluebird to pass emissions in California. like what i need to do, change or add to my car to get it legal? any help would be appreciated.

[]2eDeYe]

1970 would not have to pass emissions. If it is imported it will likely need to be inspected and issued a title. 

[racerx]

anybody have any pointers as far as getting a bone stock 1970 Japanese bluebird to pass emissions in California. like what i need to do, change or add to my car to get it legal? any help would be appreciated.

...u go on DMV website.

[hang_510]

...u go on DMV website.

Definitely don't go IN the DMV and axe anyone.

Each supervisor will find a different reason to deny registering it here.

 

Did you import it?

[nl320what]

To get the new plates/title issued (Blanket Statement) Cali DMV Needs:

 

- Application for title/transfer $registration fee/taxes: $250+$

- Application for new plates $~50

- Statement of facts

- DMV/CHP VIN inspection $free$

- Brake and light certification $120$

- Smog testing 76 and newer gas engines $~75$

- Smog testing 98 and newer diesel engines $same ish$

 

Its just the trouble of dealing with the fkn people at DMV hackin and smells, Sacramento valley DMV is like hanging out at the welfare office usually.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Just throwing this out there, if you want to avoid the DMV process altogether, you can hire a registration service. I use one. For $250 (plus DMV fees) they file all the paperwork and I don't have to worry about going into DMV nor do I have to worry about any of the paperwork being wrong.

 

As far as VIN verification, they can do that too. I even had one done via email, I just sent them pics.

[hang_510]

AAA does it for members.

I should have used a service for my van.