L16 hesitating, quits and hard to restart

[Crashtd420]

Gonna follow up Dp with a question....

He asked if bad gaps on the points can cause them to foul?

 

The dual points confuse me alittle but I am starting to understand..... I know they work together....

 

My question is if the point gap is set wrong what happens?

if the second set of points isn't working or set wrong what will that do ?

Is the gap different from single to dual?

I know he has a timing light ordered, I'm curious to see what that tells him.....

 

Does any off that effect timing?

If his timing happened to be somewhat retarded, at idle or even at full advance would he end up with black plugs?

[Crashtd420]

I'm never the one to suggest just swapping parts before you really know what the problem is but I send dp a single point dizzy with a petronix from my l16....

Would he be better off just swapping his dual points for what I sent him?

[racerx]

You can run on single point. Supposedly, dual points make the car run cleaner. But I think its also good to find out what cause his issue. If points are bad or not gapped properly then the engine may not start or will sound like its missing. Then the fuel will not get burned hence carbon build on spark plugs. If engine is running right fuel will burn efficiently. Besides the points, the condenser should be changed. Its been a long time since I've done points cuz I now have pertronix but you may want to read up on dwell angle and how the gap on the point affects this.

[Crashtd420]

Thats kind of why I leaned toward talking to dp about the timing...

He was gettimg good readings on his plugs a week or so ago... then this all of a sudden.... I guess we will see what happens once he puts a timing light on things.....

[d.p]

Yeah nothing stopping me from just dropping the dizzy you sent me in right?  I would then just be going from dual to single point petronix. But again don't want to start changing things in the hope of fixing whatever caused this in the first place.  

 

I have another condenser off the spare L16 I just got but the mounting screw was rusted to hell so I didn't want to fight it.  Like crash said I ordered a timing light which should be here tomorrow.  I assume once I find out what my timing is then it should point me in the right direction?  

[d.p]

I don't think so. Adjusting the gap will affect the timing so setting timing should be after setting the points. Very worn points would make bad contact so could cause intermittent miss. Points are constantly wearing with use just like tires so you can't ignore them and they need to be checked regularly. You can clean and 'true' them up with a file every 5K? and replace at 10k? Learned this in high school so maybe less?

 

 

Good news on the oil then. The black on the plugs must then be too much gas, running rich. Too large a jet, choke on more than off, (short trips) flooding?

 

Yeah maybe the choke is/was the problem?  I did forget about it last week while putting around and it was open for a lot longer than it should have been.  I have been using it a lot since I got the weber as the truck would die otherwise when starting it up in the morning.  

[racerx]

Could be the choke. Did you run it without it and what happened? Been hot here in Calif. In the morning I don't put my choke on for a long time, may be a minute. When I get off work and its hot, sometimes I don't even pull the choke, I just don't take off. I ease up on it. But you may as well check ur points, find out what happened. If you do put the single point dust. W pertronix make sure u understand the 11.25 position of the oil pump tang.

[d.p]

Without it?  Yesterday the truck was in a bad state (probably due to how bad the plugs were) so nothing I tried made any difference.  I think now that I have new plugs and a timing light on the way I can start at 0 and work from there.  

 

I understand the position of the oil pump tang but how does that work when replacing the dizzy?  I mean the oil pump doesn't come out/move when replacing the dizzy so whatever it is right now would be the same when I were to install the single point pertronix?

[racerx]

The oil pump mates with the dizzy and if you don't install the dizzy properly you may have a hard time timing your engine and will not start. You may want to go on line and search datsun 510 hainz video or It really helped me a lot back in the days with changing out the dizzy.

[racerx]

Or contact him banzai510 on Ratsun.

[banzai510(hainz)]

on dual points the main set is the one with the bigger condenser.

 

so gap your points and disconnect the 2nd set of points and adjust to say 10 deg  with light. and take notice where the timming plate on dist is. Sshould be close still in midlle of slot movement

 

 

If the Pertronix single point post#27. was a L16 68-69 it should drop right in the same spot. and rotor in same spot. Or 180 out(which is still ok) just move the plug wires where 4 is put to number and and go CCW 1  3 4 2 fire order

[Crashtd420]

It only gets tricky when you pull the oil pump and shaft out. You can get off one tooth very easy, then you run out of adjustment.. the dizzy can really only go in one way.... the tab is off set, so as long as that matches your fine.... the rotor should be pointing the same direction....

And should be done at with #1 at top dead...

[d.p]

The oil pump mates with the dizzy and if you don't install the dizzy properly you may have a hard time timing your engine and will not start. You may want to go on line and search datsun 510 hainz video or It really helped me a lot back in the days with changing out the dizzy.

 

I get all that and I know who Hainz is but what I am asking you is how does pulling out one dizzy and putting in another affect the oil pump tang if the engine is at TDC when doing it? 

[Crashtd420]

on

 

If the Pertronix single point post#27. was a L16 68-69 it should drop right in the same spot. and rotor in same spot. Or 180 out(which is still ok) just move the plug wires where 4 is put to number and and go CCW 1 3 4 2 fire order

Well The dizzy came off my 521 l16. mine is a 72.... (late month 71)

No idea why I didn't have a dual points dizzy.... truck had no smog stuff on it, and the crank case vent was set up like an l20b out the top not the side. Don't know if any of that matters or means anything

[d.p]

Mine a 71 and the crank case vent is off the top and I have the smog shit.  Maybe PO de-smogged yours? 

[Crashtd420]

Who knows ... had no signs of smog stuff at all.....

It's wierd the small differences sometime...

I figured our trucks were the same, that's why I figured that dizzy would drop in with no issues....

[datzenmike]

Try disconnecting the condenser (capacitor) on your points. They can fail and cause problems. If nothing changes put it back on. It's an easy check.

 

Points are simple as they are mechanical. True, you can't see the electricity, but everything else is right there to examine. You should be able to get this working and then swap the EI in. Swapping things in the middle of a problem isn't a good idea.

[Cheetahking]

I agree with Mike.  If you interject something new into a mix when you haven't figured out the rest of it, you could actually expand your problem.  Best to check one thing at a time, methodically and eliminate it as a problem.  Replacing a bunch of things at once often adds more variables.  

[d.p]

Disconnected both condensers (I have dual points) and the truck wouldn't start/run. Hooked them back up and it ran fine.

 

I'm not introducing shit except for the new plugs. Would prefer not to mess with points but again not swapping them out just yet. Timing light and new plug wires come tomorrow and will start there.

[banzai510(hainz)]

make sure you have a good point gap.

 

the tang on a TDC motor is always set to the 11/28 position. How ever you said how if another dizzy installed?  Well where this dizzy come from and you have the mount that goes with it. If you have a wrong mount or mismatched dizzy parts you pulled out of someones back yard then the rotor on distributor might not be in the correct position at TDC

 

motor can be at TDC but you need the Distributor at TDC also.

[datzenmike]

You don't need the condensers for it to run, so disconnecting them should not alter anything. They are there to reduce arcing of the points when they open and prolong their life. I would say something is/was loose there and you altered something.

 

See if your overall problem is gone now. Maybe something was loose.

[d.p]

Never installed another dizzy, the one on the truck is the one that was on it when I bought it.  Ok on the condensers, maybe I left one of the female plugs disconnected...all I did was disconnect the wires from the condensers that attach to the body of the dizzy.   Will try it again.  

[datzenmike]

I mean the act of checking sometimes fixes it. Like  corroded fuse. You take it out to examine and when you put it back is connects and works. Hopefully the problem is gone for you.

[d.p]

I doubt it but heres to hoping.  

 

I drove it around this morning with the new plugs and it seemed to drive much better.  Got it up to operating temp and then pulled the plugs which look to be half black and half white.   So still rich somewhere?  

 

[datzenmike]

So far so good. Could be a little darker but probably not driven far enough.