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KA24DE conversion issues


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#21 Stoffregen Motorsports

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 09:41 AM

Some of that fitment problem could be alleviated by converting the steering box to use an open shaft. Get rid of the tube and seal the box with a lip seal. Then use a collapsing shaft with u-joints to get it out of the way. The column will then have to be supported at the firewall and sealed off as well.



#22 Spawn

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 03:11 PM

If you want to save the time and get something that will look better than cut and welded tie rods(safer too), Early model AWD 720 has adjustable outers that will fit the 620. Can be seen in my forum about tapered inserts (2nd page).

 

Moist Lightning, are you referring to something like this from a 1980 AWD 720:

 FYbeGFQ.jpg

If so, do you know if they are the same for the driver and passenger side?  This would definitely be much easier for me than trying to locate and swap out the pitman arm on the truck, as we had originally tried to remove it with a steering knuckle fork and a hammer, but it didn't want to come off. I've searched for Pitman Arms, but haven't had any luck.  No problem finding Idler Arms, but it seems that the Pitman Arms are made of unobtainium.

 

If these would work for my situation, then I can leave the centerlink arm in the current position that I messed up on, and just install these on each side and adjust accordingly (hopefully there is enough adjustability with the combination of the centerlink, and both tie rod ends to be able to work in the opposite hole position on the idler and pitman arms).



#23 Spawn

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 03:24 PM

Some of that fitment problem could be alleviated by converting the steering box to use an open shaft. Get rid of the tube and seal the box with a lip seal. Then use a collapsing shaft with u-joints to get it out of the way. The column will then have to be supported at the firewall and sealed off as well.

 

Stoffregen, unfortunately I'm not that familiar with how I would go about doing this, or what all of these items are that you speak of.  I'm more of a visual learner, so if you have some pictures showing what you convert with the replacement parts, that would be greatly appreciated!



#24 Moist Lightning

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 03:30 PM

Moist Lightning, are you referring to something like this from a 1980 AWD 720:

 FYbeGFQ.jpg

If so, do you know if they are the same for the driver and passenger side?  This would definitely be much easier for me than trying to locate and swap out the pitman arm on the truck, as we had originally tried to remove it with a steering knuckle fork and a hammer, but it didn't want to come off. I've searched for Pitman Arms, but haven't had any luck.  No problem finding Idler Arms, but it seems that the Pitman Arms are made of unobtainium.

 

If these would work for my situation, then I can leave the centerlink arm in the current position that I messed up on, and just install these on each side and adjust accordingly (hopefully there is enough adjustability with the combination of the centerlink, and both tie rod ends to be able to work in the opposite hole position on the idler and pitman arms).

Yes those are correct.

Yeah those pitman arms don't like to come off and are hard to find. As you said hopefully there is enough adjustment to fix your current issue temporarily. Down the road you will likely need to weld the hole you drilled out shut and retaper. Costly unfortunately. otherwise keep an eye out for an arm.



#25 Stoffregen Motorsports

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 08:13 AM

Stoffregen, unfortunately I'm not that familiar with how I would go about doing this, or what all of these items are that you speak of.  I'm more of a visual learner, so if you have some pictures showing what you convert with the replacement parts, that would be greatly appreciated!

I don't have any pics, but it could be done by cutting the tube and shaft from a stock column. Machine both parts, the shaft to accept a double d universal joint, the column to accept a seal. The use a double d collapsible shaft from someone like Borgeson in between.

 

It would be a considerable amount of work, but if I were to do it, I bet I could have it done in a day. Having the right tools makes jobs like this easy.



#26 Spawn

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 02:36 PM

I don't have any pics, but it could be done by cutting the tube and shaft from a stock column. Machine both parts, the shaft to accept a double d universal joint, the column to accept a seal. The use a double d collapsible shaft from someone like Borgeson in between.
 
It would be a considerable amount of work, but if I were to do it, I bet I could have it done in a day. Having the right tools makes jobs like this easy.


Stoffregen, can you PM me? Depending on how much something like this would run, it may be a worthwhile option to pursue. Then I wouldn't have to return my exhaust manifold or search for another alternative.

#27 UnderControl

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 03:10 PM

For what it's worth the only issue I had with my header is that the o2 bung was pointed at the upper control arm mount. Routing the exhaust around the torsion bar was a little interesting but not bad.

Lij1XHq.jpg

vidKUhs.jpg

1Z04LMi.jpg

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#28 Stoffregen Motorsports

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:55 AM

Sending pm right now.

#29 ol' 320

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 02:03 PM

Spawn: I do have pics of the 720 frame clip install Matt did on my 320 pickup, if you still want them. I have  a couple of the steering conversion he describes above I can dig up and PM to you.

 

Matt sold me the 320 truck with the framework to rebuild and install the 720 front suspension included in the deal. I went up and drove the 320, he showed me a rusty frame clip at the side of the shop, and basically we made a deal and he said "come back in a month."  Or something like that. It's too bad you are all the way in NY. When he got through with my setup, I hopped in the truck and just drove 220 miles home, without any worries at all.

 

If my KA 521 had a similar clip with the steering box on the outside of the frame , I would have room for an A/C compressor:)



#30 ol' 320

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 09:24 AM

Spawn: what progress have you made toward a solution?



#31 Spawn

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 09:49 PM

My apologies all.  I've been working a bunch of overtime at work, so it hasn't given me a lot of opportunities to work on the truck.  I did manage to get the early 720 AWD tie rods and have gotten them installed.  This has solved my oil pan clearance issues, but I obviously haven't gotten an alignment done yet, so we'll see how good the solution is.  On the surface, it looks like it will be sufficient but I did have to extend the driver's side tie rod out almost as far as I would dare to go yet still have the clamping portion hold things in place.  We'll see after everything is all done and I can get it aligned.

As for the exhaust issue, after seeing some options from others, I decided to try a whole different exhaust manifold that I just ordered yesterday.  It is essentially a manifold that can be used for turbocharging the KA24DE, and places the flange for the turbo/exhaust in the middle of the manifold (between the 2nd and 3rd cylinders).  We measured the space and it appears that it should mount in there without any interference from the steering column, but after looking more closely with the original long downpipe exhaust manifold that I had purchased, it looks more like the problem point will be getting around the torsion bar than the steering column.  The new manifold is scheduled to arrive on the 25th, so hopefully, I can get it installed around that date, and then I just need to resolve the hookup of the exhaust and figuring out the radiator.

I'll try and do my best to log on here a little more regularly to provide more timely updates.  It sucks when life gets in the way of doing the stuff you want to do!  



#32 Spawn

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 04:26 PM

Latest update:  

No progress on the truck yet, however, the new exhaust manifold came in and the initial mock-up indicates that it will be perfectly positioned to complete the exhaust work, and possibly allow me to upgrade to a turbocharger in the future (will find that out when I actually install the manifold and can get a much better look/idea of things)

 

My next issue is figuring out how to route the wiring harness through the firewall.  My buddy said that the rubber boot around the harness is maybe 3" in diameter, so I either stick with drilling a hole large enough for that to seat properly in the firewall or possibly remove that boot and use a smaller grommet setup.  What I'd like to find out from those of you that have installed the KA24DE in your 620 is how you routed the wiring harness into the cabin to plug in to the ECU?  I believe I've seen some pictures of the ECU being mounted directly below the passenger seat, but I'd also like to find out where others have mounted theirs.

 

So please feel free to comment in here to let me know where the best place to mount the ECU is as well as how best to route the harness into the cabin through the firewall.  Pictures are always good too!



#33 UnderControl

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 07:32 PM

I personally put the ecu in the glove box.

a1TnckF.jpg

Pretty sure the engine harness grommet only took a 2.25" hole, although it you have a harness you could measure real quickly and find out. I personally chose to tuck the wires since I had them out anyway and made a new hole for them just down and to the passenger side of the lower heater hose.

bI2YlVN.jpg

You might as well go turbo now. No sense in making an exhaust twice.

UezlsCD.jpg

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#34 Spawn

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 08:56 PM

UnderControl,

 

Do you have any further photos of your turbo setup?  I'm considering it, but I wasn't really planning on it, as it was just going to be to get me around and give me a bit more power for hauling stuff.  From what I understand, not only would I need to find a good turbo to install, but I'd have to upgrade injectors to ensure I get enough fuel, and then also get the ECU modified to deal with the changes (or get an ECU from NismoTune or something like that).



#35 UnderControl

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 05:30 AM

Lots of pics/information in my build thread. http://community.rat...-t-620-project/

 

KA swap starts at page 5, turbo install starts at page 12.

 

You are correct, you will need at least injectors and some means of tuning, nistune daughter board is a reasonable/inexpensive option. I'm assuming you got a manifold with a T25 flange so you could go with a stock sr20 turbo and sr injectors. You could probably get away with having you ecu flashed by one of a few companies out there that do that type of thing and have it be pretty close and plenty safe, but having the ability to tune to your specific build is nice.  There are of course lots of other little things you'd need and its pretty well documented around the internet if you're actually interested.

 

In the meantime keep on working on getting the swap done and post more pics.


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#36 Spawn

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 06:54 PM

I will have to start looking through your build thread!

 

The exhaust manifold I got only had the option for a T3/4 flange, so that's what I ended up having to go with.  It looks like it fits quite well and still leaves enough room to plumb up the exhaust and possibly go with a turbo in the future.

MvBrcJp.jpg

 

Grmtwx1.jpg



#37 UnderControl

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 07:02 PM

I actually test fit a manifold that style before finding the one I'm using. Unfortunately at least for the turbo I had with it flipped upside down like in your picture the compressor housing turbo contacted the block preventing the manifold from actually seating on the head.

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#38 Spawn

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 01:30 AM

OK, here is the finished front suspension:

IZDthBM.jpg

 

And here is the finished rear suspension:

LA7puol.jpg



#39 Spawn

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 01:55 AM

Ok, not sure if this will work or not, but I've gotta try:
 
And:
 
After a couple of passes just to make sure everything is good, found that the heater core input hose wasn't clamped enough with the spring clamp so it ended up losing a bit of coolant all over the passenger side floor.  Installed a worm gear clamp and tightened it up and she was good to go after that.
 
Really need to figure out what the best exhaust components are, as I'd like to keep it relatively quiet when idling, cruising or just driving around, but then let you know when you get on the throttle that it's not just the stock L20b anymore, but something with a bit of a growl.  A buddy recommended going from the downpipe (yet to be made) into an Ultra Quiet Resonator, then through to either the currently installed muffler, or perhaps a new muffler.  I definitely don't want something that's gonna annoy the neighbors as I'm driving through the community, but when I get on it it would be nice to have a good exhaust tone.  What have you guys that have done other KA24DE swaps used for your exhaust components?
 
We did discover that the turning radius at the moment seems quite large (probably due to not having a wheel alignment yet, along with having installed the centerlink bar in the wrong spot on the Pittman and Idler arms as you can see in the previous post of mine, and having to put the tie rod ends into the center position [If anyone happens to come across a new Pittman arm, or the whole steering box with the arm, please let me know, as I would seriously consider redoing the arms to get the centerlink in the right spot and improve my turning radius.]), but it is drivable at least!


#40 ]2eDeYe

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 07:02 AM

Good to see it up and running. :)

I may have a spare arm.I will have to check my stash. 


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