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KA24DE conversion issues


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#1 Spawn

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 10:59 PM

Hi all,

 

I know several of you out there have done KA24DE swaps and have had great success with them.  I'm very close to getting mine done, but just need to install a new radiator, install the exhaust, figure out the air intake routing/components, resolve a steering/oil pan issue, wire it up and  add fluids.

 

However, here are some of my issues that I'm hoping you guys might be able to help out with:

 

1 Radiator - the 3 row aluminum one I got from eBay doesn't have the mounting holes/tabs in the right position on each side of the rad, is a little bit taller than the original (but appears to be able to fit with the hood latched) and it doesn't have a drain bung and plug in the bottom.  I got mine for Radiator Master through eBay, but I'm wondering if someone might happen to have a better resource or know of a radiator that will work without issue.  I can't re-use the original, as most of the fins are rotted out or just plain gone.

 

2. Exhaust - the 4 into 1 header that I got may be too long and possibly too wide; we're thinking that if we cut down the length of the straight portion just before it collects into one that it might fit into the space between the engine and the steering column shaft, although I don't know that I want to start chopping up a brand new exhaust header on the "chance" that it will work.  What have you guys managed to use to get things to work?

 

3. Air Intake - I got the MAF bracket from Redeye, that will allow me to mount the MAF over by the horns and the steering box, but I'm not sure what to use to route the intake from there over to the manifold.  My buddy seems to think that it won't be too hard to figure out with either some silicone piping or maybe aluminum, but I'm just a bit concerned of the length and how to ensure it doesn't start to sag or anything.  I'm guessing that without specific brackets or such, that most people just zip tie it to something to keep it somewhat stationary?

 

4. Oil Pan - I had gotten the Goferit tapered inserts that were originally mentioned as the way to go to flip the centerlink, and have managed to drill out the pittman arm and idler arm to be able to fit the tapers in, tack weld them in place and then tighten everything up.  However, I am running into an issue where the passenger side outer tie rod end where it connects to the idler arm happens to make contact with the oil pan from the front sump pan of the 240SX KA24DE that I got.  Redeye was suggesting that I just dent in the location with a ball peen hammer to provide clearance, but I wanted to see if anyone has come up with an alternative that may work better?  I'll try and get pictures posted up of the contact location so that you see what I am talking about, but it's hitting right on the corner of the extension of the pan where the oil drain plug resides.

 

SN92LH6.jpg

 

0rzVBJo.jpg

 

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide regarding these issues!



#2 ]2eDeYe

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 05:56 AM

How much further do you have until full lock? 

Looking at the pics again it looks like your outer tire rods are custom. Maybe you could pick up some adjustable ones? 


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620 KA24 Motor Mount Swap Brackets

1977 620 KingCab Deluxe KA24DE Swap - Refresh and cleanup
1978 620 kingcab 4x4 - KA24E SAS w/Dana 44 front and Toyota rear

1967 RL411 Station Wagon

 

Whenever I think that I'm out of my mind for putting this much time and money into an old Datsun, all I have to do is look some of your threads to know that I'm not nearly as whack as you are.

You're going to skin a few knuckles, stand up too fast and bump your head, hunt around the floor for the nuts and bolts you dropped, invent a few new cuss words and when you're finished you'll say "That wasn't so hard after all!"


#3 ]2eDeYe

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 05:59 AM

On the intake, I used a spectre flexible universal kit, some guys us a hard tube kit or even the stock tube. 

 

 

Or you can build your own

 

http://www.siliconei.../silicone-hose/


Smokin' Joe's House of Datto's

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Member- *Japanese Trucking Association*

**DATSUN FAQ** ~ If ya know it, post it ~ If ya don't know it, learn it ~

ratsun.net rising sun stickers                     ratsun business cards order thread

620 KA24 Motor Mount Swap Brackets

1977 620 KingCab Deluxe KA24DE Swap - Refresh and cleanup
1978 620 kingcab 4x4 - KA24E SAS w/Dana 44 front and Toyota rear

1967 RL411 Station Wagon

 

Whenever I think that I'm out of my mind for putting this much time and money into an old Datsun, all I have to do is look some of your threads to know that I'm not nearly as whack as you are.

You're going to skin a few knuckles, stand up too fast and bump your head, hunt around the floor for the nuts and bolts you dropped, invent a few new cuss words and when you're finished you'll say "That wasn't so hard after all!"


#4 Stoffregen Motorsports

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 08:25 AM

Oil pan modifications are pretty common in engine swaps. I just cut up a brand new steel LS pan last week. If you do decide to clearance it with a ball peen, be careful. That side kickout is welded onto the main portion of the pan and whacking it too hard may fracture the weld where it connects. If I were to go that route, I would heat up the steel with a torch and form it that way. But I wouldn't do that. I'd cut and patch for clearance.

 

Brian_D_4_Small_024_zpsfmags74j.jpg

 

How good are you with a welder? Do you have access to a TIG welder? It takes a pretty good weld to hold oil in a pan. I usually weld steel oil pans (or anything else that holds fluid) with silicone bronze rod and even then, sometimes I find myself chasing pinholes. You will need to leak test the weld by filling up the pan with water and blowing air onto the weld, then look for bubbles in the water.

 

Brian_D_4_Small_026_zpsrgfu7hbe.jpg



#5 ol' 320

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 08:31 AM

Regarding exhaust... When installing the KA24DE into my 521, we decided to use a Tomei Expreme cast iron header designed for turbo applications as a NA manifold. Dumps the exhaust farther forward and clears the stock steering column on a 69, which like your 72 620, has the steering box mounted toward the inside of the frame rail.  Expensive manifold, but beautifully cast and looks very free-flowing. And should help avoid the header "ting" that I really am not anxious to hear anymore.

 

I bought my manifold from Enjuku after corresponding with some guys at Tomei about exact dimensions. I didn't want to spend $500 on manifold and hen not have it clear the steering:)

 

I'm not up to posting pics as I have not solved my Photobucket problem yet. But if you want to PM me your email, or if Redeye is willing to post a couple of pics, I can send you a shot or two of this installed.

 

On the radiator .... I live in the Central Valley in Cali.... about 6-7 months of 100-plus degree temps, so I was worried about cooling.

I went the expensive way to avoid any quality issues with a Champion-style radiator. I had CBR in SoCal build me a custom three row radiator that is very high quality.... but again, much more pricy than an off the shelf solution.

 

I am not a builder ... I am admittedly not even a hack mechanic (altho I can change a water pump and have changed the heads on a Type 1 VW) but I have collaborated with friends to have cars built all my life. I wanted this KA 521 to be super reliable, and serviceable  as while it is finished as a show car I plan to drive it.  I have a Ron Davis radiator in my KA24De-powered roadster, which has a/c. No heat issues at all, but this is a $700 radiator and fan setup. Bolts right in, and no fiddle farting around about it. Absolutely exquisite welds and fitment. But, Ron Davis has made enough 510 radiators that you can just call them and order one up.

 

I decided on the CBR radiator because I really liked the quality of the CBR rad in MrBigTanker's FJ-powered 521. That has to be a $6K-plus engine (without his fancy ITB setup) so I know Ray wanted reliability with his calling system.

 

Disclosure: I had to wait for MONTHS for Clint at CBR to finish my custom job, because he was building radiators for SCORE truck and a bun of stuff for wild military insertion vehicles, but I got exactly what I wanted and let me tell you, this radiator is sweet.

 

Redeye: if you are willing to post some pics for me, I would be glad to email you shots to insert here.

 

OP: Please post other shots of your truck. I learn from every build thread, and every problem solving thread. 



#6 ol' 320

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 08:34 AM

Regarding Stoffregen's post above.... if you can spend the dough, Have Matt build you a custom pan! I bought a customized 320 from him that had a 720 balljoint front clip and a wild A12 setup. His fab work is flawless and he is absolutely a straight shooter.

 

(I have no financial relationship with Matt's company except as a happy customer)



#7 2wheel-lee

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 10:21 AM

Don't you have the center link and tie rod ends reversed on where they're supposed to mount on the pitman and idler arms? I'd think that would compromise the steering. 



#8 UnderControl

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 02:11 PM

What 2wheel said.

620-120-01.jpg

"If you are under control, you are going too slow." - Parnelli Jones

Dat build log


#9 FrankRizzo

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 08:04 PM

Tell me more about this Redeye MAF bracket??? WTF? Why was I not told about this?

 

.


Proper Capitalization is the difference between: I helped my Uncle jack off a horse and I helped my Uncle Jack off a horse. 


#10 Lockleaf

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 08:21 PM

Its in redeyes thread about the kit in "discussion"

Half Pint ('71 510 Goon) http://community.rat...agon/p?=1269361

 

Audrey ('69 Roadster 1600) http://community.rat...rey-the-ratster

 

Tiny Havok ('85 720 DIY built Crewcab 4x4) http://community.rat...ache/?p=1395455

 

720 Shenanigans http://community.rat...20-shenanigans/


#11 ]2eDeYe

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 06:16 AM

Tell me more about this Redeye MAF bracket??? WTF? Why was I not told about this?

 

.

 

 

Bolts to factory nut inserts in the newer trucks. The holes are there are the early trucks, but no nut inserts. 

 

 

dLhbpkr.jpg

 

 

 

 

I really need to re upload my good pics.....


Smokin' Joe's House of Datto's

gJv38AY.jpg
Member- *Japanese Trucking Association*

**DATSUN FAQ** ~ If ya know it, post it ~ If ya don't know it, learn it ~

ratsun.net rising sun stickers                     ratsun business cards order thread

620 KA24 Motor Mount Swap Brackets

1977 620 KingCab Deluxe KA24DE Swap - Refresh and cleanup
1978 620 kingcab 4x4 - KA24E SAS w/Dana 44 front and Toyota rear

1967 RL411 Station Wagon

 

Whenever I think that I'm out of my mind for putting this much time and money into an old Datsun, all I have to do is look some of your threads to know that I'm not nearly as whack as you are.

You're going to skin a few knuckles, stand up too fast and bump your head, hunt around the floor for the nuts and bolts you dropped, invent a few new cuss words and when you're finished you'll say "That wasn't so hard after all!"


#12 Farmer

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 08:39 AM

They are backwards



#13 Stoffregen Motorsports

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 09:44 AM

Regarding Stoffregen's post above.... if you can spend the dough, Have Matt build you a custom pan! I bought a customized 320 from him that had a 720 balljoint front clip and a wild A12 setup. His fab work is flawless and he is absolutely a straight shooter.

 

(I have no financial relationship with Matt's company except as a happy customer)

Thanks Eric.



#14 Spawn

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 10:53 PM

Can someoe verify for me that the centerlink bar should be in the middle position of the idler arm?  It had been a while since my buddy and I tore everything apart, so when we were putting it back together it didn't look like the centerlink should go in the middle hole as it appeared that the bar would interfere with the oil pan, so we centered it and it lined up with the end positions.  I'm hoping that someone who's done the reverse taper mod with a 240SX KA24DE can chime in here and tell me which position they used.  I'm now dreading the thought that we may have drilled out the wrong holes and will have to get another set of reverse tapers and then drill out the middle holes to put the new ones in, and punch out the ones we already welded in and reinstall them so that they are no longer reversed...  :crying:



#15 Spawn

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 03:38 AM

Well, I have to hang my head in shame. After my friend and I got out of work we went to the shop and had a look at the old assembly we pulled out that was sitting in the bed of the truck while it was up on the lift. The centerlink bar is indeed attached to the middle or inner point with the outer tie rod end attached to the end point.
So now I have to decide if I want to modify an outer tie rod end by taking about an inch out of it so that it doesn't hit the oil pan but can remain in the middle mount position with the centerlink in the end position or swap the positions of the centerlink and outer tie rod ends (which would mean either getting new idler and Pittman arms that would need to be drilled out in the middle position and not the end position, or just getting another set of tapered inserts and drilling both arms in the other hole for the new inserts and flipping the existing inserts over to be like normal).
The hazards of rushing your work and not taking a bit more time to ensure you get it right the first time.

#16 Moist Lightning

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 06:47 AM

Well, I have to hang my head in shame. After my friend and I got out of work we went to the shop and had a look at the old assembly we pulled out that was sitting in the bed of the truck while it was up on the lift. The centerlink bar is indeed attached to the middle or inner point with the outer tie rod end attached to the end point.
So now I have to decide if I want to modify an outer tie rod end by taking about an inch out of it so that it doesn't hit the oil pan but can remain in the middle mount position with the centerlink in the end position or swap the positions of the centerlink and outer tie rod ends (which would mean either getting new idler and Pittman arms that would need to be drilled out in the middle position and not the end position, or just getting another set of tapered inserts and drilling both arms in the other hole for the new inserts and flipping the existing inserts over to be like normal).
The hazards of rushing your work and not taking a bit more time to ensure you get it right the first time.

 

If you want to save the time and get something that will look better than cut and welded tie rods(safer too), Early model AWD 720 has adjustable outers that will fit the 620. Can be seen in my forum about tapered inserts (2nd page).



#17 ]2eDeYe

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 07:35 AM

You definitley do not want to cut or weld a forged steering arm.

 

You should do as Moist suggests or you could go to hiem joint links and bore all the holes through for bolts. 


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Member- *Japanese Trucking Association*

**DATSUN FAQ** ~ If ya know it, post it ~ If ya don't know it, learn it ~

ratsun.net rising sun stickers                     ratsun business cards order thread

620 KA24 Motor Mount Swap Brackets

1977 620 KingCab Deluxe KA24DE Swap - Refresh and cleanup
1978 620 kingcab 4x4 - KA24E SAS w/Dana 44 front and Toyota rear

1967 RL411 Station Wagon

 

Whenever I think that I'm out of my mind for putting this much time and money into an old Datsun, all I have to do is look some of your threads to know that I'm not nearly as whack as you are.

You're going to skin a few knuckles, stand up too fast and bump your head, hunt around the floor for the nuts and bolts you dropped, invent a few new cuss words and when you're finished you'll say "That wasn't so hard after all!"


#18 Charlie69

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 08:10 AM

Get the 720 tie rods there are easily accessible.



#19 ]2eDeYe

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 06:09 AM

I was asked to add these to this thread. Sorry for the delay, pics aren't as easy to get on the internet as they once were.....
 
IMG_2469.JPG

IMG_2470.JPG

IMG_2472.JPG

IMG_2473.JPG

IMG_2474.JPG

Tomei.jpeg

DSC_8880.jpeg

Smokin' Joe's House of Datto's

gJv38AY.jpg
Member- *Japanese Trucking Association*

**DATSUN FAQ** ~ If ya know it, post it ~ If ya don't know it, learn it ~

ratsun.net rising sun stickers                     ratsun business cards order thread

620 KA24 Motor Mount Swap Brackets

1977 620 KingCab Deluxe KA24DE Swap - Refresh and cleanup
1978 620 kingcab 4x4 - KA24E SAS w/Dana 44 front and Toyota rear

1967 RL411 Station Wagon

 

Whenever I think that I'm out of my mind for putting this much time and money into an old Datsun, all I have to do is look some of your threads to know that I'm not nearly as whack as you are.

You're going to skin a few knuckles, stand up too fast and bump your head, hunt around the floor for the nuts and bolts you dropped, invent a few new cuss words and when you're finished you'll say "That wasn't so hard after all!"


#20 ol' 320

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 06:44 AM

Thanks J2eDeYe. The pics above show the custom radiator I had CBR build, and the cast iron Tomei Extreme KA manifold I am using to gain clearance around the stock 521 steering shaft .... the problem I suspect Spawn will also face with most headers on a KA install.

 

Please post more pics of your build as you go.