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Changing front wheel bearings


josh817

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Well, I have some questions and also mklotz70 can't receive PM's from me so hopefully he will see this. I've got a warped rotor up front and I believe it walloped out my wheel bearing. Suspected so far. Get a bad vibration under heavy braking so I usually just coast in and apply brakes when I'm under 30MPH. No vibration when cruising. With the truck parked I can grab the top of the tire and pull out and get quite a bit of play and hear the same noise. Could be tie rod, changed them 2 or 3 years ago but the rubber boots on that side have cracked and it may be bad.

 

I will go with unconfirmed wheel bearing until I can get to the weekend. So, my question is about the age old bearing issue. I saw in Mikes post about his spacers that the 620 inner bearing sits slightly lower and this could cause rubbing from the drum to the side of the shoe. Well I don't have that and I'm sure it would rub on the inside of a brand new brake pad for me but since I am in need of a brake job anyway and to hold me off until I can get Mikes spacer, does anyone foresee an issue with just straight up using a 620 inner bearing for now so I don't crash and die...

 

Also are there any other known issues so I can prepare myself for the job? I assume I use 521 gear for everything but the inner bearing. Will have video in a second.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2tBf0H3ZEQ

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Agree, not likely the wheel bearings. Every bad one I have had, started making a growley sound.

 

Vibration when braking is likely pad transfer from extremely hot brakes with new uncured pads.  When you stop, heat makes a pad imprint of friction material on the rotor. When turning the pad grips this and lets go causing a vibration. Over time the rotor wears down around the print leaving a high spot. 

 

 

If the steering wheel jumps back and forth, check all the steering ball joints and specially the idler arm for wear.

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Just checked the king pin, surprisingly little to no play but I wasn't really wailing on it. Tie rods tight. Sway bar has some rotted rubber making it a little loose. That may be the clunking I hear on slight dips. I mean, it's looking like a wheel bearing for now. It could have a growl and I don't know it, I usually wear earbuds or plugs on highway from the wind and road noise. Also pretty sure the first problem was a warped rotor. I have probably 50,000 miles on these and you can feel the lump in the pedal. When slowing (5mph and less) to a light you feel the pulsing. Either way I need new pads new rotors. I can do those this weekend and see what happens from there but for now I am pretty scared to stomp the brakes at highway speed. Something sounds like it wants to break no pun intended. If I lay my foot on the pedal I can slow enough without any drama.

 

Side note, I have always heard a hard clunk when changing direction with the wheel cranked over hard. Like if I am backing out of a spot and pulling forward. Doubt they are related. The two things I fear are kingpins and that pin at the bottom of the dog bone that people warn to keep in the right direction. RIP ball joints and rubber connections that are easy to repair.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBuhliZNv0I

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I guess I did see this.  I didn't realize my box was full again.  I cleared some space out.

 

I'm guessing that you're running Bee's brakes if you're talking about 521 vx 620 bearings in the hub.  I have the spacers you're asking about.  They're on the site whenever you want to order them....or pm me.

 

Fresh grease in your kingpins may help buy you some time.  

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Just watched the vids.  Holy cow that's a lot of movement in the first one.  Is the UCA bushing okay?   Pop the dust cap on the hub.....with that much movement.....if it's from the bearings you'll see play behind the dust cap.  It's pretty easy to take the cotter pin out, and pull the hub/bearings and check them.  If you pull the wheel first, you can pull on the rotor.....you should be able to see where the play is pretty easily.

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I reached into the wheel and grabbed the rotor and it makes the same wobble (2nd vid). The yanking on it from the first vid, yah probably control arm bushings. The whole front end needs to be done. I was pondering this today, especially for king pins. If someone like you who can do them quickly and reliably does a few rounds, assuming you have the dog bone and hubs on the shelf, so then someone like me can buy them at full cost. Then if/when they get around to swapping out their gear, ship the original stuff back and after you give it the thumbs up, refund that core charge... Just a thought. I might be one of only a few here that drives it daily and relies on it.

 

And yes Beebani brakes. When I get home tomorrow I will take the cap off and check. I should know this, but I don't suppose the nut is something that needs occasional retightening?

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The rotor/hub/wheel are bolted together with the wheel studs......so they're going to move together no matter what your issue is.  

 

If the spindle nut wasn't installed correctly to begin with, it will come up loose........but that loose???......I kind of doubt it.  Plus....if it were the bearings, it would wiggle a lot more easily and on both axis' in your second vid.

 

The second vid was confusing until I realized it was rotated 90deg.

 

You should be able to see the UCA bushing pretty easily.....especially in your second vid.  

 

I'm curious to see what the actual problem is.

 

I have some spindle/dogbones and I've been thinking that I'd rebuild them and put them up for sale with a core charge.  I haven't gotten around to doing them and I'm dragging my feet because I'm pretty tired of working on kingpins.  I bought the cnc mill so I could do more machining, not more repair work on greasy, rusted parts. lol   I don't imagine they'll be "cheap" either.  With it being so hard to find kingpin kits these days, a fully rebuilt set of spindles/dogbones is probably going to be in the $400-500 range.  The core will probably be about $200.  I'm kinda torn on the core thing since there's no guarantee I can get any more kingpin kits to rebuild the cores with......I'd just end up with more junk laying around here.  It would also mean that I'd have more greasy parts to rebuild.  After 30+ years of repair work, I can't tell you just how sick and tired I am of fixing and repairing crap..........especially greasy/rusted parts!!!  LOL!!!  I'm sure I'll probably end up doing some of the rebuilds since I already have a fair amount of $'s spent on them.  

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My father the same way. He supplements his shop by selling stockpiles of parts on the shelf. Unless if it is hard to find, he doesn't see any point in trying to refurb certain items for customers when there is a new version in the catalog. After labor, as you know with the bitchy things that pop up like broken, rounded off, seized, hardware, many times you're better off ordering from the catalog. $400-500 with $200 core doesn't sound bad to me at all if it means I could spend a day or less swapping parts. Otherwise I am stuck having the truck on jacks and boring my dads car. I don't like to rely on others. He has mercy on me because it's him but my mother... once you rely on her for car duty you get the endless nagging "when will you buy a car from this decade" Seeing as I can get some pretty decent average joe cars for $3000, it is tempting. The king pins may push it to there. My 521 is not a show car by any means.

 

TLDR: you win it's a kingpin causing that knocking so far. Though, the vibration at braking is far too violent to be just that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cPanEuZiwI

 

RYOxOdP.jpg

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The kingpins are loose, maybe other stuff also.

There is no instant fix here, your going to have to make a decision, do you want ball joints or are you going to rebuild the kingpins?

Mike is working on the ball joint thing, but I don't believe it is ready yet, so your choice is a Beebani ball joint conversion, fabricate something up yourself, or keep the kingpins, I have seen worse.

You need to check everything to find out if it is one thing, or a combination of things, upper control arm bushings, lower control arm bushings, kingpins, bearings, they all need to be checked, I would also check and maybe change the rotors, my 1980 Datsun 720 has the early 720 non-vented rotors, and I can feel the vibration in them when they get warm, I am waiting to find a 1986 Nissan 720 being parted out to grab the vented rotor disc brake setup they have instead of buying new early rotors.

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#83 on the diagram is the cause of concern right now. When I brace the bottom of the tire, with the car sitting on the ground, and pull on the top of the tire, I can damn near pull the the suspension off but it's almost spring loaded because it pulls back into place when I let go. Confirmed it was coming from the top of the dog bone and it corresponds with the same wheel that has the vibration under braking. I've got a few stupid questions...

  1. Why did Nissan go with some metal/greased bushings and some rubber. Why not all rubber?
  2. Does #87, the one that is orientation sensitive ever wear and need replacing? If it is orientation sensitive, do you have to hone that hole to accept the new bushing?
  3. Tension rods going to the front... are those self explanatory, apply tension (pull towards the front) on the control arm or can you go either way?
  4. It was said above that kingpins are hard or expensive to source. I saw a set on Napa for ~$300, high $200's on O'Reillys, but Autozone had $60 kits. Do we have another part mix up issue like on the inner front wheel bearings?

8F1tZnw.jpg

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You buy 87, 92, 93 together like in the ebay link below.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spindle-Lower-Arm-Bush-Assy-RH-LH-Pair-for-Datsun-520-521-620-1965-1977-/371843560186?fits=Make%3ADatsun&hash=item56939a72fa:g:PKIAAMXQ855RwMAt&vxp=mtr

And here is the upper bushing assembly.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spindle-Upper-Arm-Bush-Assy-for-Datsun-Truck-520-521-620-1965-1977-/371956822320?hash=item569a5ab130:g:LVMAAMXQdGJRymXt&vxp=mtr

Here is a king pin kit, I used to be able to buy these for under $30.00 shipped, I actually have a Nissan kit and an A.N.D. kit in the parts room right now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-DATSUN-L520-L521-PL521-PickUp-Truck-520-521-KING-PIN-KiT-40022-25675-/252956849621?hash=item3ae56735d5:g:YfQAAOSwHjNV7-4Q&vxp=mtr

All you can do is pull your front end apart and start buying what you need, or convert over to ball joints/disc brakes using the kits available out there right now.

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Wayno has most of the parts covered for you....

This is the #83 you mentioned..

 

Screenshot_20170526-073802_zpsyn8rdops.p

That #83 part has a steel sleeve inside the rubber.. on mine the bolt and sleeves rusted together.... I had to separate everything then cut the bolt out.....

 

I'll let others comment on the rest...

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Ok I'm bored ...

 

The only parts that would need to be fitted and honed are the king pin bushings...

Most of the slip fit stuff like #87... and even the kingpin as it fits into #27/#28 shouldn't need it but I had to do a slight hone so they slipped in better... was probably just rust ...

 

And be careful with those small anti rotation pins.... #88 maybe even #18...

I think they come with the king pin kit but I didn't get ones for the lower link #88.... had to reuse....

 

Not sure about how the other stuff wears out or not... or how reusable things are once removed....

In my opinion the only 2 parts that should wear are the upper link bushing and the king pins bushings....

I guess it all depends on how much or little you wanna replace...

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