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1200 Transmission swap, 56 to 60


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#21 KELMO

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:08 PM

So, after some consideration and advice from a few folks on here that are way smarter than I am, its time to do this again.  So the following will be the bits to be used (for the first try)
 
A12 flywheel
Long T/O collar
A12 Clutch
Thin Bellhousing plate
 
I am 98% sure I used the short T/O collar which came of the 56A trans.  Whilst stumbling around the shop last night I found these(of course I was
looking for something completely different).
IMG_20170518_180625495_zpspcrtcvxt.jpg
The one on the left I had labeled 60A 5spd, which I think come out of this particular trans, the one on the right is labeled 79 210 60A 5spd and that car had the intermediate plate so.....
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#22 KELMO

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 09:20 AM

So, pulled it apart and swapped the short T/O collar for the long T/O collar and still have no engagement.  I can slip it into gear at low RPM's and the wheels do move.  The next step will be to put the intermediate plate in between block and trans.
 
 
If nothing else, I am getting some experience removing and installing a transmission on a 1200
The collar on the far right is the one that was in the vehicle, the one on the far left is in it now.
IMG_20170524_151645171_HDR_zpsdgylbgez.j
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#23 datsunfreak

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 02:31 PM

Is the 60A the small output straight pattern 5 speed? 

 

I just used the 63A dogleg with all the internal gubbins from the donor. I like 'em stout...


It's your car, just don't ruin it.


This seems like an elaborate ploy to get me to say "I like the D".


#24 KELMO

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 06:42 AM

I think the answer is yes.  Uses the same drive shaft as the 56A.  Have a dogleg laying around here but this car is technically for the missus so I don't want to give here a trans that may confuse her while driving barefoot and trying to make me a sammich.
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#25 datsunfreak

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 02:46 PM

 

I think the answer is yes.  Uses the same drive shaft as the 56A.

 

Then yes.   :thumbup:

 

Actually had a look at my buddy's 60A today and it is indeed the straight pattern 5 speed. And is definitely a bit less beefy than the 63A...

 

don't want to give here a trans that may confuse her will driving barefoot and trying to make me a sammich.

 

:rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:


It's your car, just don't ruin it.


This seems like an elaborate ploy to get me to say "I like the D".


#26 rusty12ver

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 11:08 AM

I think adding the plate will pull the trans that much further back. One thing I never checked was the clutch forks, for differences in shape. The other was the pivot point for the fork. I never verified if they sat in the same location, let alone the size of each pivot. I always assumed they were. on one swap I got away with shimming the pivot point with a washer or two when using the a12 flywheel.

#27 KELMO

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 01:33 PM

Clutch fork........now when exactly did Iook at that( have no idea) , and do I remeber(no), and were they different(pppffffttt who knows).


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#28 KELMO

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 04:04 PM

I am convinced that I will turn this into a 2 month project....Trans still will not engage and now I am thinking the trans is no good/built incorrectly.  A few years back, I installed a dog leg 60 series 5 speed on the gray coupe.....and did not swap a single part.  Took the 5 speed out of the junk yard and installed in the coupe, and drove it so there is that.  Anyway, I have a 60 series 5 speed out of a 79 210 (same type that the dog leg came out of) and I know it works, so I am going to install that next (# 4 for those of you that are counting).   In the meantime I have gotten the process fairly well laid out and documented.  Yeah, no pics.....I mean it is a transmission install.

 

1.Disconnect battery

2. Remove starter

3. Remove slave cylinder

4. Remove exhaust down pipe (remove both rubber hangers for the muffler before removing down pipe), push to the drivers side.

5. Support the engine block

6. Drain trans

7. Remove drive shaft

8. Remove speedo cable and harness for rev sw/neutral sw

9. Remove bell housing bolts

10. Support trans ( I am using a floor type trans Jack)

11. Remove rear mount ( I leave this attached to the trans and just unbolt from the body mounting points)

12. Remove shift lever

You should now be able to separate the trans from the block ( see, this IS a 12 step program)

 

REINSTALL

1. With the trans on the jack, stab the trans back to the block

2. Hand tighten the bell housing bolts

3. Install cross member bolts( while the trans is still hanging down a bit, install the shift lever...this gives you a little more space to work)

4. Install drive shaft

5. Tighten all bell housing bolts

6. Install down pipe

7. Install slave cylinder

8. Install dust shield(for bottom half of trans)

9. Install starter

10. Install speedo cable

11. Install harness to rev sw/neutral sw

12. Reconnect battery

 

 

Hope this helps someone do a trans removal......Lord knows I have done it several times over the past weeks.


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#29 datsunfreak

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 04:16 PM

A few years back, I installed a dog leg 60 series 5 speed on the gray coupe.....and did not swap a single part.  

 

I was thinking about this since your last post...

 

On my current coupe, we swapped everything from the block back and it worked fine.

 

On one of Tim's coupes we swapped just the trans and nothing else. And it worked fine. 

 

I'd be leaning torwards bad trans too at this point...


It's your car, just don't ruin it.


This seems like an elaborate ploy to get me to say "I like the D".


#30 KELMO

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 04:41 PM

When it was being rebuilt the guy that was doing most of the work sez " oh, I've never done one of these" (master MB tech who specializes in transmissions), so yeah, Imma try the one I know works and take all the other shit off....intermediate plate for sure and not really sure which t/o collar but I will use one of the taller ones just incase.  There is a car show next Sunday and I would like to take this car but if not, I AM storing a SSS 411 sedan for a friend of mine so that will be my back up car. :thumbup:


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#31 KELMO

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 03:22 PM

Well, with the nightmare wiring issue on the grey car......the 5 speed ended up in the green car.

 

Long throw out bearing collar

NO intermediate plate(between block and trans)

Stock A12 clutch

210 slave cylinder (but I don't think it matters).  Actually wait, I used the 4 speed slave cylinder.

 

Seems to work good so far.  I have put about 20 miles on it and had the speedo up to 80MPH twice so this car will now go at least 60MPH...maybe 70.


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#32 datzenmike

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 03:46 PM

Your starter pinion will be engaging the flywheel deeper by the missing thickness of the engine plate. It may be alright (for now) but you could just put washers between the transmission and the starter case.

 

Slave won't matter. Most Datsuns are 3/4"


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#33 KELMO

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 06:35 AM

I will have to investigate that....will have it up on stands after 100 miles or so just to check her over....bolts fluids and what not.

 

 

At least now I have reverse lights.........all the time. B)


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#34 datzenmike

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 08:26 AM

The tranny switch may be stuck on or the two wires somehow twisted together.


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#35 KELMO

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 12:34 PM

The starter should be no different than it was before.......same flywheel, same block, had no plate on the other engine.


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#36 KELMO

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 04:29 AM

Have put about 100 miles on this thing so far and seems to be mostly OK.  Shifting to 2nd and 3rd are a bit grindy until the car reaches a normal operating temperature.  If I leave my hand on the shifter in 3rd gear it will sometimes pop out.  The detent screws on the side of the trans may need some adjustment.  The continuous revers lights, well lets just say that a NEUTRAL switch will not work as a reverse light switch.  Downloaded a GPS speedo app to my phone and the car rolls along nicely at 65MPH and I had a high speed of 73 MPH while I was out yesterday.. Going to take her to cars & coffee today, should be about a 70 mile round trip.

 

Now, what did I do with that 510 Wagon thread?


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#37 datzenmike

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 07:31 AM

Try GM Delco synchromesh transmission oil or any other quality synthetic oil. Mine was a stiff shift into second when cold and down shifts were so bad I would roll around corners in town before shifting down. It's a bit spendy but I swear by it. Shifts are now faster for the same effort. Always replace the rear seal as this stuff will leak past an old one.


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#38 KELMO

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:05 AM

Welp,the shifting is the least of my worries today.  Got up early cleaned her up a bit for a trip to cars and coffee........never even made it out of the shop.

 

I had noticed that it sounded a little rough when starting but that went away as soon as the oil light went out.  Start it up this morning, put it in neutral and start hearing sounds that are just not normal, like maybe something has come undone.  With the clutch engaged, no sounds, so back up on the jack stands we go.  First, DM mentioned something about the starter being further forward without the plate so will start there......of course after I remove the starter, take off the inspection plate, then reinstall the starter and hope I can see enough in there.

I do have another 5spd that I am 90% sure is in usable condition ( well at least until I start messing with it) so I can fit that one in and see where that gets me.  Also, if parts don't fall out when the inspection cover is removed I plan to drain out a little gear oil and look for any metal bits...hope I don't find any.

OR, I could just start day drinking.  At least I have another set of jack stands since the wagon went up on the good ones yesterday (you know you own a Datsun when you have 2 sets of jack stands).

 

Here is what I used for this swap.......

A12 flywheel

60A 5speed

A12 (1200) clutch set up

1200 starter

One of the taller release bearing collars

 

One last thought I had was that if I use the plate from the A14/15 block, I think the engine mount brackets will have to be altered a bit to allow for the extra thickness of the plate.  I say this because there may be some binding going on here.

 

Now all I need is some mechanical ability. :thumbup:


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#39 datzenmike

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:41 AM

First, DM mentioned something about the starter being further forward without the plate so will start there.....

 
The starter bolts through the plate and onto the trans so if the plate is missing, the starter will be closer to the transmission by the thickness of the plate... about 1/8"? and deeper into engine/flywheel ring gear
 
It may wear the ring or sound differently when starting but probably will work. Starter won't affect the running or clutch operation.

 

Transmission 'nose' will be inserted 1/8" deeper into the end of the crankshaft, that in that in itself shouldn't matter as there is likely room.

 

However the release bearing and collar will be closer to the diaphragm fingers on the pressure plate and would engage and release the clutch slightly higher up on the pedal travel.
 
 
 
 

Start it up this morning, put it in neutral and start hearing sounds that are just not normal, like maybe something has come undone.  With the clutch engaged, no sounds, so back up on the jack stands we go.


Engaged would be clutch pedal up and clutch gripping the spinning flywheel which would spin the countershaft in the transmission. If quiet when spinning, then not the transmission.

If noisy with the clutch disengaged, pedal down and transmission stopped, then most likely the release bearing or pilot bushing is bad. Still would mean removal but transmission is fine.

 

 

 

 

So... need to know these questions...

 

You kept the same release collar that was used on this engine?

Did you replace the used release bearing with a new one?

Did you put it on facing the correct way?

Did you replace the pilot bushing in the end of the crankshaft?


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#40 KELMO

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:18 PM

Same release collar is a good question. I have had this trans for some time now and the first time installed (on the grey car) it went from junkyard into the car, changed nothing and it worked but sounded like a cement mixer (bad bearings). Ran and drove.  I can neither confirm nor deny if the collar is the same, T/O bearing is OEM and properly installed. I have somewhere around 6 T/O collars, almost all are different heights. Oh, and by the way, I now bag and tag everything that I take off a car.
 
Pilot busing was not replaced as it looked good upon inspection.  If the trans has to come out (or more to the point when), then well why not, right?
 
Had the clutch thing bassakwards, with the pedal up, trans in neutral, that is when I get noise.  With the pedal down, trans in gear, noise goes away and the car will move once I hit the friction point on the pedal but I did not want to really move the car to avoid any (more) damage.

Starter picture. This does not look too pretty.
VyenHgc.jpg
Once reinstalled, the gear does not come close to the ring. This may be an incorrect starter.

Bad pic of ring gear. It looked a bit tore up also.
PMCzIsS.jpg

Difference between A12 flywheel and A14, A12 is on the left. A14 is about 6mm thicker.
nVQxGYu.jpg
NISMO: Nissan Impresses Sluts More Often
"Well, primer gray IS a color..." (quote: Kelmo's wife)