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Stupid crazy shit Ford Explorer


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#1 DaBlist

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 11:34 AM

I picked up a 98 Ford Explorer that's been parked for years do to the owner getting a crazy high quote for a leaking rear axle bearing.

 

Bought for $250 

Clean Title

Lost keys

Will need axle saver bearing at best or axle and bearing at worst (I hope)

 

Trying to be in it for under $500 dollars to use in a $500 car event.

 

So I have no keys and replacement quote for computer clipped keys is over $200.

 

From what I can find without the proper chipped key signaling the computer the engine will turn over and fire the plugs but will not send a signal to the injectors.

 

Clearly the smart thing would be to pay for a proper key but for the sake of doing something crazy, thinking like someone deep in the bowels of the Soviet Union or some third world country, and the sure joy of getting around the computer...

 

What if I remove the butterfly blade from the throttle body leaving the shaft and TPS in place, reduce fuel pressure and mount a carb to the front of the throttle body (Cuting hole in the hood is fine) with the carb linkage synced to the throttle body so closed is closed and WOT is WOT for both?

 

Not asking if this is a good idea because it's clearly not, just asking if it could work and be reasonably drivable for crazy shit points.

 

 

7671c356-975f-446b-8ac9-b99806cbf0ca_zps


 "It's like comparing a wooden roller coaster to a modern modern roller coaster. Without a doubt the modern roller coaster is faster, quieter and smoother. But people still love to ride the wooden roller coasters. The sounds, vibrations, jerks and jolts all add to the experience. Sure a wooden roller coaster may not be as fast, but it's sure a fun ride that can equally scare the crap out of you." - Annette

 

"is it racist to assume that cauliflower is just white entitled broccoli ?" - jrock

 

"You spend a lot of time pushing on doors that say pull, don't you?" - mhub91

 

Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until they speak - www


#2 Rjawm

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 03:05 PM

Or for the risk of $5.94 you buy this...

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

http://www.ebay.com/...sd=311746241941

 

 

And then follow these instructions...

 

http://www.explorerf...ramming.343860/



#3 Mattndew76

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 03:30 PM

I picked up a 98 Ford Explorer that's been parked for years do to the owner getting a crazy high quote for a leaking rear axle bearing.

 

Bought for $250 

Clean Title

Lost keys

Will need axle saver bearing at best or axle and bearing at worst (I hope)

 

Trying to be in it for under $500 dollars to use in a $500 car event.

 

So I have no keys and replacement quote for computer clipped keys is over $200.

 

From what I can find without the proper chipped key signaling the computer the engine will turn over and fire the plugs but will not send a signal to the injectors.

 

Clearly the smart thing would be to pay for a proper key but for the sake of doing something crazy, thinking like someone deep in the bowels of the Soviet Union or some third world country, and the sure joy of getting around the computer...

 

What if I remove the butterfly blade from the throttle body leaving the shaft and TPS in place, reduce fuel pressure and mount a carb to the front of the throttle body (Cuting hole in the hood is fine) with the carb linkage synced to the throttle body so closed is closed and WOT is WOT for both?

 

Not asking if this is a good idea because it's clearly not, just asking if it could work and be reasonably drivable for crazy shit points.

 

 

7671c356-975f-446b-8ac9-b99806cbf0ca_zps

 

 

Gambler $500 truck lol


An idea doesn't work unless you do.  


#4 datsunfreak

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 05:30 PM

 just asking if it could work and be reasonably drivable

 

My money is on no. 


It's your car, just don't ruin it.

 

It's also not my money, so i'll suggest the most expensive option. 

 

 


#5 DaBlist

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 06:46 AM



Or for the risk of $5.94 you buy this...

 

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/...sd=311746241941

 

 

And then follow these instructions...

 

http://www.explorerf...ramming.343860/

I bought this off ebay for $14 including shipping

 

s-l1600_zps1k3mcoxs.jpg

 

Thanks for the link.

The Explorer forum thread starts out sounding exactly like what I need but the responses all conclude with what I have read everywhere else that you first need to have a working key to program another yourself. This leaves me with paying someone with the software to talk to the PATS system.


 "It's like comparing a wooden roller coaster to a modern modern roller coaster. Without a doubt the modern roller coaster is faster, quieter and smoother. But people still love to ride the wooden roller coasters. The sounds, vibrations, jerks and jolts all add to the experience. Sure a wooden roller coaster may not be as fast, but it's sure a fun ride that can equally scare the crap out of you." - Annette

 

"is it racist to assume that cauliflower is just white entitled broccoli ?" - jrock

 

"You spend a lot of time pushing on doors that say pull, don't you?" - mhub91

 

Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until they speak - www


#6 Draker

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 01:27 PM

Gonna cost you $500 in gas to complete the gambler 500.


View my 69 510 4dr Sedan - Build Thread
View my 71 510 2dr Sedan - Coming soon.

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#7 Rjawm

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 01:39 PM

96 to early 98 can be programmed with 1 key, not that you have even one key.  Ford changed it to 2 keys later after they figured out that meant valets could easily add a key while in their lot.

 

You should be able to follow the new master key learn process and have it work, it just a long boring process with the long waits in-between steps and high chance of missing the 5 minute windows for the next step due to nodding off lol.

 

 

Not sure if you know this already but the PATS system isn't in the tumbler, it's the weird ring mounted around the tumbler in the column.  Once at least one key is programmed you can remove that ring, zip tie a working key to it (you can cut off the "key" part to make it easier), stuff it in the lower dash, and then use any normal non-chipped key to start the vehicle.  It also means any idiot with a screwdriver can start it too, as you have completely bypassed the system permanently.  This was also the normal method used to bypass the systems in the early days of installing aftermarket remote starts in these vehicles.

 

There are a couple vids on YouTube that explain how to bypass the controls on the motor as well, so then there is no need for a PATS chipped key at all.  It's somewhat involved, digging into control boxes and rerouting the wires as needed but it seems less involved with a higher chance of success than the carb mounted on a throttle body technique.

 

The last option I would throw out is to find the compatible intake from an earlier non-EFI, non-PATS engine and go that route.  Should be able to stay low on the costs to stay within the "regs" of the $500 car.  Could also sell off some unneeded parts to offset the costs too, very commonly done.



#8 DaBlist

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 01:41 PM

Gonna cost you $500 in gas to complete the gambler 500.

We've talked about doing the Gambler 500 as it looks to be a lot more fun. This is for the Oregon 500/500 which is similar but has become much more low key. There's supposed to be a new route planner and we're hoping they give some more crazy back roads this year.

 

$500 is for only the core vehicle before making it kind of safe


 "It's like comparing a wooden roller coaster to a modern modern roller coaster. Without a doubt the modern roller coaster is faster, quieter and smoother. But people still love to ride the wooden roller coasters. The sounds, vibrations, jerks and jolts all add to the experience. Sure a wooden roller coaster may not be as fast, but it's sure a fun ride that can equally scare the crap out of you." - Annette

 

"is it racist to assume that cauliflower is just white entitled broccoli ?" - jrock

 

"You spend a lot of time pushing on doors that say pull, don't you?" - mhub91

 

Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until they speak - www


#9 DaBlist

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 01:45 PM

96 to early 98 can be programmed with 1 key, not that you have even one key.  Ford changed it to 2 keys later after they figured out that meant valets could easily add a key while in their lot.

 

You should be able to follow the new master key learn process and have it work, it just a long boring process with the long waits in-between steps and high chance of missing the 5 minute windows for the next step due to nodding off lol.

 

 

Not sure if you know this already but the PATS system isn't in the tumbler, it's the weird ring mounted around the tumbler in the column.  Once at least one key is programmed you can remove that ring, zip tie a working key to it (you can cut off the "key" part to make it easier), stuff it in the lower dash, and then use any normal non-chipped key to start the vehicle.  It also means any idiot with a screwdriver can start it too, as you have completely bypassed the system permanently.  This was also the normal method used to bypass the systems in the early days of installing aftermarket remote starts in these vehicles.

 

There are a couple vids on YouTube that explain how to bypass the controls on the motor as well, so then there is no need for a PATS chipped key at all.  It's somewhat involved, digging into control boxes and rerouting the wires as needed but it seems less involved with a higher chance of success than the carb mounted on a throttle body technique.

 

The last option I would throw out is to find the compatible intake from an earlier non-EFI, non-PATS engine and go that route.  Should be able to stay low on the costs to stay within the "regs" of the $500 car.  Could also sell off some unneeded parts to offset the costs too, very commonly done.

I'll have to give it a shot. be great if it works.


 "It's like comparing a wooden roller coaster to a modern modern roller coaster. Without a doubt the modern roller coaster is faster, quieter and smoother. But people still love to ride the wooden roller coasters. The sounds, vibrations, jerks and jolts all add to the experience. Sure a wooden roller coaster may not be as fast, but it's sure a fun ride that can equally scare the crap out of you." - Annette

 

"is it racist to assume that cauliflower is just white entitled broccoli ?" - jrock

 

"You spend a lot of time pushing on doors that say pull, don't you?" - mhub91

 

Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until they speak - www


#10 Rjawm

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 01:46 PM

So after more research, it's a no go on the carb intake swap.

 

Seems quite a few people would like one, but there is no easy way to do it.



#11 DaBlist

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 01:49 PM

On the upside I did trade out the 16" wheels with good tires for some not so good 15" wheels and tires and got $200 in the deal so I'm only in $50 at the moment. And I have a OK set of 15" tires I can use (that are on another truck I drove home for $250 'cause Race Car, I mean beat pile with blow head gasket)


 "It's like comparing a wooden roller coaster to a modern modern roller coaster. Without a doubt the modern roller coaster is faster, quieter and smoother. But people still love to ride the wooden roller coasters. The sounds, vibrations, jerks and jolts all add to the experience. Sure a wooden roller coaster may not be as fast, but it's sure a fun ride that can equally scare the crap out of you." - Annette

 

"is it racist to assume that cauliflower is just white entitled broccoli ?" - jrock

 

"You spend a lot of time pushing on doors that say pull, don't you?" - mhub91

 

Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until they speak - www


#12 DaBlist

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 01:53 PM

So after more research, it's a no go on the carb intake swap.

 

Seems quite a few people would like one, but there is no easy way to do it.

My thought was to not let the computer know the carb was there. Not saying it would have worked but there would have been some street cred points for showing with such a whacked configuration


 "It's like comparing a wooden roller coaster to a modern modern roller coaster. Without a doubt the modern roller coaster is faster, quieter and smoother. But people still love to ride the wooden roller coasters. The sounds, vibrations, jerks and jolts all add to the experience. Sure a wooden roller coaster may not be as fast, but it's sure a fun ride that can equally scare the crap out of you." - Annette

 

"is it racist to assume that cauliflower is just white entitled broccoli ?" - jrock

 

"You spend a lot of time pushing on doors that say pull, don't you?" - mhub91

 

Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until they speak - www


#13 Rjawm

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 02:02 PM

My thought was to not let the computer know the carb was there. Not saying it would have worked but there would have been some street cred points for showing with such a whacked configuration

 

What I found was some similar threads on TheRangerStation forum talking about using a sidedraft carb on a custom adapter in place of the TB altogether.  Who knows, it just might work lol.  There were many other issues to overcome as well, no dist, a way to false the TPS, blah, blah, blah, so many electronic controls to bypass.  I don't know if there is a way to strip it back to no computer at all, especially with the lack of a distributor.

 

Also found this, it might be helpful in some way.

 

https://www.scribd.c...ti-Theft-System



#14 DaBlist

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 02:08 PM

What I found was some similar threads on TheRangerStation forum talking about using a sidedraft carb on a custom adapter in place of the TB altogether.  Who knows, it just might work lol.  There were many other issues to overcome as well, no dist, a way to false the TPS, blah, blah, blah, so many electronic controls to bypass.  I don't know if there is a way to strip it back to no computer at all, especially with the lack of a distributor.

 

Also found this, it might be helpful in some way.

 

https://www.scribd.c...ti-Theft-System

The computer just senses and controls to many things

 

That link is more good info, Thanks


 "It's like comparing a wooden roller coaster to a modern modern roller coaster. Without a doubt the modern roller coaster is faster, quieter and smoother. But people still love to ride the wooden roller coasters. The sounds, vibrations, jerks and jolts all add to the experience. Sure a wooden roller coaster may not be as fast, but it's sure a fun ride that can equally scare the crap out of you." - Annette

 

"is it racist to assume that cauliflower is just white entitled broccoli ?" - jrock

 

"You spend a lot of time pushing on doors that say pull, don't you?" - mhub91

 

Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until they speak - www


#15 datsunfreak

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 02:11 PM

So after more research, it's a no go on the carb intake swap.

 

especially with the lack of a distributor.

 

We used one of these engines in a B210. Used an Edelbrock intake, basic 4bbl Holley, and an aftermarket distributor (GM HEI based). 

 

The real problem isn't the lack of a distributor (which can easily be overcome), it's the lack of any timing marks. We ended up fabbing our own. 

 

20140726_120258.jpg


It's your car, just don't ruin it.

 

It's also not my money, so i'll suggest the most expensive option. 

 

 


#16 DaBlist

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 02:15 PM

We used one of these engines in a B210. Used an Edelbrock intake, basic 4bbl Holley, and an aftermarket distributor (GM HEI based). 

 

The real problem isn't the lack of a distributor (which can easily be overcome), it's the lack of any timing marks. We ended up fabbing our own. 

Hopefully this engine and rearend will get a new home one day

 

But first things first


 "It's like comparing a wooden roller coaster to a modern modern roller coaster. Without a doubt the modern roller coaster is faster, quieter and smoother. But people still love to ride the wooden roller coasters. The sounds, vibrations, jerks and jolts all add to the experience. Sure a wooden roller coaster may not be as fast, but it's sure a fun ride that can equally scare the crap out of you." - Annette

 

"is it racist to assume that cauliflower is just white entitled broccoli ?" - jrock

 

"You spend a lot of time pushing on doors that say pull, don't you?" - mhub91

 

Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until they speak - www


#17 Rjawm

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 02:17 PM

We used one of these engines in a B210. Used an Edelbrock intake, basic 4bbl Holley, and an aftermarket distributor (GM HEI based). 

 

The real problem isn't the lack of a distributor (which can easily be overcome), it's the lack of any timing marks. We ended up fabbing our own. 

 

20140726_120258.jpg

 

Is that a 4.0l Cologne V6?

 

I couldn't find any Edelbrock intakes for the 4.0l



#18 Rjawm

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 02:21 PM

May have answered the above question myself, haha.

 

Check post number 15

 

https://www.ford-tru...rel-intake.html

 

 

 

I wish you the best of luck in finding a "cheap" way to make this work. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's always the cheat and lie about the actual money spent option as well, worst case you get hit with one of the funny "punishments" to even it out if caught.



#19 datsunfreak

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 02:23 PM

Is that a 4.0l Cologne V6?

 

I couldn't find any Edelbrock intakes for the 4.0l

 

That's a 5.0 V8. 

 

 

Could've sworn Dablist told me his was a V8...


It's your car, just don't ruin it.

 

It's also not my money, so i'll suggest the most expensive option. 

 

 


#20 DaBlist

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 02:34 PM

That's a 5.0 V8. 

 

 

Could've sworn Dablist told me his was a V8...

Yes

 

5.0 Explorer's seem to be popular donors for the 80's 5.0 Mustang crowd


 "It's like comparing a wooden roller coaster to a modern modern roller coaster. Without a doubt the modern roller coaster is faster, quieter and smoother. But people still love to ride the wooden roller coasters. The sounds, vibrations, jerks and jolts all add to the experience. Sure a wooden roller coaster may not be as fast, but it's sure a fun ride that can equally scare the crap out of you." - Annette

 

"is it racist to assume that cauliflower is just white entitled broccoli ?" - jrock

 

"You spend a lot of time pushing on doors that say pull, don't you?" - mhub91

 

Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until they speak - www