Jump to content


Photo

anyone have actual pictures of A12 mods for a 320


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#1 merlin

merlin

    Datsun Scatologist

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,596 posts
  • Location:clearwater bc
  • Cars:p310, v1965 Cedric, 510x2, 70 521, 68 patrol, 65 l320

Posted 15 March 2017 - 06:01 PM

have a nice A12 and need to get my 320 running asap... can fab anything sorta... just need a plan stan!


'You guys are the drunken, abusive, dysfunctional family I never had' -Elmerfudpucker

#2 wayno

wayno

    Datsunahaulic

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,008 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 07:21 PM

This guy has done that, A12 in a 320 truck.

http://community.rat...en-motorsports/

I have done the A15/5spd, oil filter is tight, but if you use a 521 idler arm it clears, it will not clear with that giant idler arm the 320s have, at least mine didn't.

Transmission mount was a bitch, the way I did it the tranny mount wanted to be right on top of the cross member.

You need the floor shift 1965 tunnel though, don't know about a column shift tunnel, mine was a 65.


 

 


#3 merlin

merlin

    Datsun Scatologist

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,596 posts
  • Location:clearwater bc
  • Cars:p310, v1965 Cedric, 510x2, 70 521, 68 patrol, 65 l320

Posted 15 March 2017 - 08:19 PM

yah... might go back to doing a quick rebuild of one of my J13's. i do have a 65 tunnel.


'You guys are the drunken, abusive, dysfunctional family I never had' -Elmerfudpucker

#4 difrangia

difrangia

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,021 posts
  • Location:SE Oklahoma
  • Cars:78 620 Longbed, '63/64 NL320, '64 Beetle Type 117 Ragtop, 61 FIAT 500D, 3 Vespa Scooters

Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:22 AM

Merlin, I know that you're well capable (been following your build on FB) but if you use any Datsun floor-shift trany other than the one that came in the 320's, first year 520's and same period 410/411's, you're gonna be cutting/modifying the floor at the back of the transmission cover plate in the floor. The shifter sprouts up approximately 4"-5" more to the rear than the original trany in all other transmissions that I know of.

 

Also the original floor-shift trany is a non-synchro 1st gear four speed. As Wayno posted, http://www.stoffregenmotorsports.com/is definitely one of the guys you wanna talk to on this endeavor (start rounding up a 720 frame/suspension front half).



#5 merlin

merlin

    Datsun Scatologist

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,596 posts
  • Location:clearwater bc
  • Cars:p310, v1965 Cedric, 510x2, 70 521, 68 patrol, 65 l320

Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:12 AM

I'm going to dig into my other J13 a bit more. it was a runner, but it freaks me out because it has a wood tree know for one of its frost plugs... going to pull that out first and see if i can get a real frost plug to stick... if it does, i'll do a gasket and seal refresh and drop that in... I have a new j series carb and a new distributor coming, so as long as it has decent compression and nothings stuck, it will do for the 80 miles of driving it will have this summer on the TV show.  i have a J 13 with 2  floor shift trannys and a J13 mated to the 4 speed column shift.   going to use one of the floor shifts as I have the 65 tranny pan.  


'You guys are the drunken, abusive, dysfunctional family I never had' -Elmerfudpucker

#6 Stoffregen Motorsports

Stoffregen Motorsports

    Datsun Mechanic

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,904 posts
  • Location:Cool, CA
  • Cars:http://www.4wdandsportutility.com/features/rover/0611_4wd_1957_range_rover/viewall.html

Posted 16 March 2017 - 08:17 AM

Thanks for the recommendation guys.

 

I've had two 320's with A series motors in them. My green L320 had an A12 with a 5 speed and a Weber DGV and my blue NL320 had an A14 with SU's. The A12 has problems fitting as the alternator is on the driver side in it's original configuration and has to be moved to the passenger side to fit in the truck. I made an alternator bracket for mine, which sandwiched the oil pump. It was not the most elegant solution. You can't really put the alternator up high because the distributor on an A12 is closer to the front of the block than any other A series, not leaving room for the alternator. I suppose you could try to leave it in it's stock mounting location, but you'd have to get real creative with the lower radiator hose to get it all to fit.

 

I also like to cut the frames and improve them with newer suspension, which you can see here - http://community.rat...int-conversion/, but this has nothing to do with the engine.



#7 Stoffregen Motorsports

Stoffregen Motorsports

    Datsun Mechanic

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,904 posts
  • Location:Cool, CA
  • Cars:http://www.4wdandsportutility.com/features/rover/0611_4wd_1957_range_rover/viewall.html

Posted 16 March 2017 - 08:26 AM

Oh, the oil pan also has to be cut and reversed and the oil filter will hit the idler arm, but installing a small Toyota filter provides just enough room to clear.

 

Then there's the whole 5 speed thing. They are long. And getting one to fit in a 320 does require cutting the tunnel, but not much. The largest problem with the trans is the shifter potentially hitting the front of the bench seat.



#8 Stoffregen Motorsports

Stoffregen Motorsports

    Datsun Mechanic

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,904 posts
  • Location:Cool, CA
  • Cars:http://www.4wdandsportutility.com/features/rover/0611_4wd_1957_range_rover/viewall.html

Posted 16 March 2017 - 08:27 AM

BTW- doing some spring cleaning and I'm giving away a 720 front clip. I just need it outta here.

 

Any takers?



#9 merlin

merlin

    Datsun Scatologist

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,596 posts
  • Location:clearwater bc
  • Cars:p310, v1965 Cedric, 510x2, 70 521, 68 patrol, 65 l320

Posted 16 March 2017 - 12:28 PM

... yup... J13 rebuild it is...


'You guys are the drunken, abusive, dysfunctional family I never had' -Elmerfudpucker

#10 Stoffregen Motorsports

Stoffregen Motorsports

    Datsun Mechanic

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,904 posts
  • Location:Cool, CA
  • Cars:http://www.4wdandsportutility.com/features/rover/0611_4wd_1957_range_rover/viewall.html

Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:46 PM

That easily discouraged?

#11 wayno

wayno

    Datsunahaulic

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,008 posts

Posted 17 March 2017 - 01:57 PM

It's kinda funny, I have never seen a J13 engine that needed rebuilt, all the ones I ever test ran were fine, but I have not tried to start them all either.

 

I wish you were closer Matt, I would be all over that front clip just for the brake upgrade for my 1980 720 diesel, I can feel the brakes pulse in that truck.


 

 


#12 merlin

merlin

    Datsun Scatologist

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,596 posts
  • Location:clearwater bc
  • Cars:p310, v1965 Cedric, 510x2, 70 521, 68 patrol, 65 l320

Posted 17 March 2017 - 04:32 PM

the larger factor actually is that i don't have an A series tranny. I have 2 J floor shift 4 speeds.   

 

I'm not going to really rebuild the J13... no machine shop... just strip it down, clean it up and refresh all the gaskets.  


'You guys are the drunken, abusive, dysfunctional family I never had' -Elmerfudpucker

#13 difrangia

difrangia

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,021 posts
  • Location:SE Oklahoma
  • Cars:78 620 Longbed, '63/64 NL320, '64 Beetle Type 117 Ragtop, 61 FIAT 500D, 3 Vespa Scooters

Posted 17 March 2017 - 05:23 PM

What J-series floor shift trany do you have, Merlin?

 

The vehicles with J-Series engines in 65-early 66  had the the top-load floor-shift trany.

 

In September 1965 the switch was made to the transmission with the bottom pan and the shifter 4-5 inches further back on the trany.

 

PM me if you're interested in talking about the trany differences.

 

Steve



#14 bananahamuck

bananahamuck

    S&S chicken/rice

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,338 posts
  • Location:Tumwater WA
  • Cars:It's a fucking anti-aircraft gun, Vincent.

Posted 17 March 2017 - 06:09 PM

J13 aren't as pukie as everyone says,,, you just gotta keep the throttle open farther to keep up... I drive mine all over hell with the locals and with a 3.90 rear gear it keeps up with them on the freeways and such ,, their bigger 2.4 L headed motors and L20bs go up hills better but hills are only so big ,, all have 5speeds ...

 

  Hell we traveled at 65+ for a couple hours when we came up to the show in Vancouber last Sept.


So somehow while i was driving back from Eaglerock swap meet i somehow caused YOU to post this,,,, do really think members on this site are that stupid to believe i caused it??

http://community.rat...un-for-a-while/

Yeah i guess you do,,

 

BTW ,,,, the first person to call you a pussy,,,, ya might wanna check out his ethnicity ,, cuz i don't think it's what you think it is there snowflakeboy

 


..........................I shall call it, narclops.

 

 

 


#15 merlin

merlin

    Datsun Scatologist

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,596 posts
  • Location:clearwater bc
  • Cars:p310, v1965 Cedric, 510x2, 70 521, 68 patrol, 65 l320

Posted 17 March 2017 - 07:39 PM

i want to see if you can fit J15 pistons in one. Apparently it's supposed to be the same block.  Just don't know if its just bored 40 over to make the 200cc .. or bored and stroked.


'You guys are the drunken, abusive, dysfunctional family I never had' -Elmerfudpucker

#16 merlin

merlin

    Datsun Scatologist

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,596 posts
  • Location:clearwater bc
  • Cars:p310, v1965 Cedric, 510x2, 70 521, 68 patrol, 65 l320

Posted 17 March 2017 - 07:44 PM

73mm bore on the j13,  78mm bore on the J15... same stroke...  hmmm


'You guys are the drunken, abusive, dysfunctional family I never had' -Elmerfudpucker

#17 merlin

merlin

    Datsun Scatologist

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,596 posts
  • Location:clearwater bc
  • Cars:p310, v1965 Cedric, 510x2, 70 521, 68 patrol, 65 l320

Posted 17 March 2017 - 07:50 PM

What J-series floor shift trany do you have, Merlin?

 

The vehicles with J-Series engines in 65-early 66  had the the top-load floor-shift trany.

 

In September 1965 the switch was made to the transmission with the bottom pan and the shifter 4-5 inches further back on the trany.

 

PM me if you're interested in talking about the trany differences.

 

Steve

 

 

i have 1 out of a 1965 320, which i think is the original 320 tranny, the second one is out of a 68 521, which is quite different in shape. 


'You guys are the drunken, abusive, dysfunctional family I never had' -Elmerfudpucker

#18 difrangia

difrangia

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,021 posts
  • Location:SE Oklahoma
  • Cars:78 620 Longbed, '63/64 NL320, '64 Beetle Type 117 Ragtop, 61 FIAT 500D, 3 Vespa Scooters

Posted 18 March 2017 - 05:02 AM

Late 1964 & 65 floor-shift trany for 320 and also used in 520 pickup and sedans till Sept 65 manufacture. External difference between 320 and 520/sedan application is machining-drilling of tailshaft mounts. The casting has pads cast for both vehicles. This is my transmission. Non-synchro low gear like the column-shift.

 

320_Floor_Trany__3.jpg

 

Bottom-pan trany used  from Sept 65 till end of 520  with J13 engine production. I know little about 520/521 pickups besides this. I'd assume that this transmission will not mate with the L-Series engine in a 521. Sorry, don't have a direct side view handy.

 

520_Bottom_Pan_Trany_Left_side.jpg

 

Input shaft on the 320 transmission is 7/8" diameter with 20 splines.  Input shaft on the bottom-pan transmission is 1" diameter with 24 splines.

 

I used Exedy clutch kit for the bottom-pan trany when putting the top-load (correct original) transmission in our 320 but had to source the correct 8"/200mm diameter clutch disc with proper splined hole to fit the 320 transmission. can't use the disc in the Exedy kit with the top-load trany (wrong center hole).

 

Merlin, I hope that you have the flywheel, adapter plate, and throw-out collar for the 320 floor shift transmission that you have. Flywheel is same for both tranys. Throw-out collar is hardest item to round up if you don't have it., I found one after a lengthly search and developed a dimensioned drawing of the collar to have one machined from if needed. I can get pics of the boxes with part numbers of the Exedy kit and clutch disc that I used if you need them. 

 

Steve



#19 ol' 320

ol' 320

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 328 posts
  • Location:Central CA
  • Cars:67.5 roadster, M3, TR6 w/ 302

Posted 18 March 2017 - 08:31 AM

Merlin: I bought Matt's 320 w/A12 Rebello engine and dogleg fivespeed. Matt did the 720 clip for me and let me tell you, this truck was a great handling, stopping screamer.

 

If I had a fresh slate, I would clip the frame to get 720 balljoint front end and disc front brakes. The 720 brakes on a 320, which weighs, what, almost 1,000 lbs less? Felt like driving a 911 when you stood on these:)  besides Matt's threads on here, you can see this truck thread on my site by going here 

 

Now, while Matt built a great engine (He worked at Rebello for years) this was an A12 with a .500 something lift cam and while it would zing to 8k no problem, it was relatively mild and until about 3k and then became an animal. Not a lot of torque. It pulled a 3.9 reared just fine until you wanted to climb an 11percent driveway from a stop;)  If this had been an A15 with a milder cam I think it would have been sweet!  The ride was better than any Datsun I've been in. I drove this thing pretty hard for about 9k miles then passed it to my buddy, as he lives in a more temperate climate without triple digit heat and this thing has no a/c.

 

But I still love this truck and someday will probably reacquire it. Right now it regularly hauls his vintage Brit bikes to shows and I can tell you it pulled several 1,500 lb loads of lumber and gravel with no sweat for me. Great driver combo.

 

​For anyone thinking about this setup, I would highly recommend having Matt do the work. Super cool guy. I bought his triu=uck, with the understanding he would rebuild and install the 720 clip and fab up the instrument panel (see my link). I hitched a ride up to see him when it was done, hopped in it, and set off cold for a 500 mile trip. No tools, no worries, it was perfect.

 

Merlin, if you want it all, so to speak, think about the 720 clip and install a nice L16 with  shorty d21 tranny (Wayne and Jrock have thread on this, they have both done this). That setup with a 3.9 pumpkin in the 320 H190 would give a super result, without cutting the firewall. And the stock L16 with the more modern tranny would make this ol' truck feel like it was built in this century!



#20 wayno

wayno

    Datsunahaulic

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,008 posts

Posted 18 March 2017 - 09:14 AM

I didn't install 390 gears in that truck when I was at your house, I installed 411 gears in that truck.

Maybe you are talking about a different truck?

How are you doing Eric?