That4doorKiD Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 There is so much unnecessary argument damn, so off topic sometimes . I would like to know the answer to the question too. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 This is a forum which invites discussion of relative merits. "China made race rods" leaves a lot of questions unanswered. Like the final intended use like 8,500 RPM sustained racing or street use with quick buzzes to 6K. China has a history of making crap that is cheap and cheap quality. If you want Nazi forum try Hubris Z. I don't suggest you ask right up front about the L24 rods for your L16 or you'll be flamed for not doing 8 hours of research. You will be given a warning and your post removed. Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Always alot of opinions here.... Long story short i ordered this exact set from ebay.... Aside from torqueing the bolts to spec.. I believe it was 60ft lbs , and resizing the big end, which I believe is necessary on any new rod.. So far I have had zero problems.. tolerances were perfect once assembled... I cant comment on longevity because my motor only has about 12 miles on it and about an hour or so of running. I don't know if compression ratio has any effect or not but my engine is an L16, at 10.5-1 compression and we made pulls on the dyno up to 5000 rpm or so with no issue.... I can't imagine 100 to 150 hp will effect them... supposedly rated for 600 so my theory was how could 100 something hp hurt them..... Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Hey Crash, how did they balance out? Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Actually they balanced out weight wise perfectly.. I had everything balanced and checked individually and as a complete assembly. This guy was very good at what he does.. he had nothing bad to say about the rods... the only thing he told me was to keep the bolts with the rod they were in, he was casing around less than .1 of a gram on the whole assembly so... The only thing I can say bad was the small end with the brass had a little chatter on the finish which my machine shop didn't like.... they did a slight hone for the finish and it still had the perfect fit for the new piston pins... Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 And only $200 for a set? Wow! Did you happen to notice the stamping on the rod bolt head? I doubt they are SPS or CARR, but they do look high quality. I wonder if they sell 6" Z20 rods. I didn't see them on their website. If so, that could be a real game changer for 2200/2300 guys. Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Nothing was stamped on them... but most likely the ones for 200 have no bolts... 250 gets the set with arp style studs... don't know about the other rods... Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Oh you asked about the bolt... saw nothing on the bolt either... I guess you could get the 200 set then get real arp bolts.. I had no problem with the bolts either... torqued to 60ft lbs no issues... Quote Link to comment
G-Duax Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 And only $200 for a set? Wow! Did you happen to notice the stamping on the rod bolt head? I doubt they are SPS or CARR, but they do look high quality. I wonder if they sell 6" Z20 rods. I didn't see them on their website. If so, that could be a real game changer for 2200/2300 guys. I paid $250 for my MaxSpeeding FJ20 rods, and they came with ARP bolts. Was well into the work to polish beams, balance, resize, shotpien, and otherwise make life difficult prepping a set of stock FJ rods until I found these. All I had to do is put L-series wrist pin bushings into them. Saved about 100 grams of weight at the same time :) Quote Link to comment
MantisX620 Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 What is the benefit of using these rods over a stock set with upgraded ARP bolts? Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 Strength. 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 Ever seen a rod come through the side of the block? Look closely at this pic. See the chain holding up the engine? It's going through a hole in the block 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 Other than weight, The only difference to me was the style piston that you could run with it... Easier to assemble and disassemble a floating pin vs stock which is pressed into the rod and floats the piston... But you can modify stock to except a floating pin piston which I found out after I bought mine... so there goes that argument.. And from what I've read stock rods are good even for race application but it is said that the weak link is the rod bolts, they recommend converting to 3/8. if you happen to have the 9mm bolt version even better.. at minimum I'd replace the 8mm with arp if I was gonna still run the stock rods... So basically there's not much benefit or difference... maybe availability? Not sure how ready available stock rods are now a days for the l series motors never really looked.... 1 Quote Link to comment
MantisX620 Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 I thought L20b rods were forged from the factory? Are we saying the forging process of the stock rods is different therefore weaker? For the engine im building for turbo, my plan was to use the stock rods with upgraded bolts and get some forged pistons made since everything else is already forged. MantisX Quote Link to comment
G-Duax Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 The weak point on factory rods, besides the bolts is the parting line down the sides where the excess material is shear off. They are called stress risers. This can be ground smooth, but then you lose the tough skin produced by the forging process, so you need them shot peened to put the tough skin back on. By the time you buy bolts, pay to have them shot peened, resized, balanced, and spend ours grinding the shear lines off, you are way ahead just to buy a set of H-beams.......that will be lighter & stronger. Here are some that I was going through before I found the $250 MaxSpeeding rods. 1 Quote Link to comment
MantisX620 Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Thanks for the clarity. It seems a different set of rods would be my best bet on a blow through setup Quote Link to comment
Xnke Posted April 7, 2017 Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 RPM doesn't hurt rods, it hurts pistons. HP is what hurts rods...and detonation kills rods faster. So, in the 14,000RPM L20B that I maintain for a drag racer local to me, we run Oliver custom titanium rods, however at 8500RPM we were still running prepped stockers. Stock L20B rods are happy to at least 8500RPM and 280HP, as long as you don't have detonation issues. The Pistons, however...that's the 4000ft/s rule posted previously. Don't exceed 7200RPM with stock L20B pistons...but if you keep them out of detonation, they're pretty happy till you hit 260HP. 2 Quote Link to comment
G-Duax Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 So, in the 14,000RPM L20B that I maintain for a drag racer local to me..... Like, Like, Like :) Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 Maybe the tach is set for 2 cylinder. :lol: 3 Quote Link to comment
Xnke Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 I didn't build the engine Mike, I just maintain it, and machined replacement rockers for it. Investment cast 4140 steel, roller follower and roller tip. Cam is billet steel and has a larger base circle and larger barrel diameter to reduce twisting along it's length. I have no idea where the original rockers came from, but I believe the original engine builder was in AU-as there are some parts of the engine that are marked with an AU engine builder's name. Also, the new titanium rods weigh in at 411 grams each...the prepped stockers that were in it were 790 grams. I'll see if I have any videos of a pass-he doesn't need the revs for power, he needs them to pull the gears. Tony Knight in Adelaide makes more power at 8400RPM than this engine does at 14K. 4 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 oo0O0oooooh Roller rockers. In comparison my stock 145.9mm L20B rods/cap and bolts are around 475gr. Quote Link to comment
Xnke Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 I think you may want to check that again-stock L24 rods with bolts, and caps are more than that at 760g, for the shorter rod...If you're saying L20B are 475, and stock L24 (I matched a set this afternoon) are 760... EDIT: Just weighed a set of the Carrillo Pro H 3/8" bolt 133mm L24 rods that are on the shelf here, they're 555 grams per set, and are a steel rod. I think those Ti Olivers are about a third beefier than they really need to be-Now I'll have to pull them out this winter and see if we can lighten them up even more! I have a partial set of the 145mm Nissan Competition rods somewhere around here...The local dealership threw out literally dumpsterloads of nissan comp parts when the closed up the comp counter, and I raided them...most got sold but I am still looking for 1 more rod to match up to this set of 5. I'll see if I can find them and weigh one. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted April 10, 2017 Report Share Posted April 10, 2017 In comparison my stock 145.9mm L20B rods/cap and bolts are around 475gr. Yup page was folded. Averaged 705gr. Couldn't repeat the measurements so couldn't balance the rods and gave up. The gauge was so sensitive I had to shut the window. Quote Link to comment
Xnke Posted April 10, 2017 Report Share Posted April 10, 2017 Ok, so I got out the notebook again, and went out to check my scale, because my notes don't record them at 760...my scale got tare'd wrong. Gonna have to re-weigh that set before I deliver them... Anyway: L24, 133mm, 9mm rod bolt, forging N0-1, 711 grams L28, 130.3mm, 9mm rod bolt, forging A87-2, 727 grams L28, 130.3mm, 9mm rod bolt, forging A87-1, 711 grams LD28, 140mm, 9mm rod bolt, forging V07-1, 790 grams L18, 130.3mm, 9mm rod bolt, forging A87-2, 688 grams Those are the ones I can dig up tonight. Quote Link to comment
G-Duax Posted April 10, 2017 Report Share Posted April 10, 2017 Then there are the Mechart rods.... This is one from my son's L20b set. I also have a set of 6" blanks. 1 Quote Link to comment
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