510 aluminum flywheel

[Michael Rankin]

Once again, forgive me for my ignorance, but I'm new to 510's

I am bringing an old road race car back life.  It has a new 1.8 L race motor, a 280ZX 5 speed trans.  I want to use an aluminum flywheel and need to know what clutch and throw out bearing and bearing holder fits this set up.   The current parts all work, but I don't know how old/worn they are and there are no identifying numbers on them.

Also I see talk of 200mm and 240mm flywheels, what do I need to use ?

 

thanks again

 

Michael Rankin

[G-Duax]

Since you already have the flywheel, and it's an L18 5-bolt, then the size is already dictated.

Most likely it's an original L18 size clutch assembly.

I would use a Centerforce clutch on a single disk set-up.

That is what I had set aside in case I didn't like using a dual bronze disk on the street, but I have gotten use to it, even though state inspection guys can't handle it. Kind of funny to watch.

[datzenmike]

Post a picture of your flywheel, probably it's the stock  200mm so get a 200mm clutch for it and call it good.

 

If you are racing it only, maybe get an aluminum one, but if driving it on the street stick with what's on it. To get your car moving from a stop requires storing energy in the form of a flywheel's spinning mass. Lower the mass and the more you have to rev the engine and slip the clutch to get rolling... very annoying for in town driving. For an L16/510 about 20 pounds is fine, possibly lightened as low as 16. A close ratio zx transmission makes a lightened flywheel an even poorer idea unless running 4.375 or 4.626 gears in the rear end. Again, if a racing only car, you can lighten it as much as you want because there are very few stops.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

If it's a 200 mm, which it probably is, get a Roadster clutch. All the dimensions are the same, but the pressure plate is stiffer offering more grab. I believe you may need a shorter throwout bearing collar if you use that setup.

 

But, if it were a race car, it probably has the Roadster clutch in it already.

 

The Centerforce pressure plate is too stiff and will wear out the clutch arm pivot. There are companies that make custom discs with a multitude of friction materials that can make up the difference and solid center plates without the springs. Call a vintage race car guy, like Troy Ermish, Rebello Racing or Malvern Racing. They will be able to get you a proper disc.

 

There are a couple other guys on the east coast that do vintage Datsun race cars, but I can't think of the names right now.

 

A friend of mine has a steel flywheel and Tiltion multi disc clutch setup he wants to sell. If you're interested, I can ask him what he wants for it.

 

Do you have any pics or history on the car you could share? I'd love to know who's car it was and where it raced.

[datzenmike]

Roadster clutch should work with the stock release collar length.

[shacks510]

Aluminum flywheel in a 510 is fine. I have an 11lb Tilton 225mm flywheel. With the clutch the assembly weighs about 30lbs. Perfectly fine on the street. It's no more difficult to drive than my old motor with a stock flywheel. Just revs faster.

[G-Duax]

shacks, you probably have an L20B, right ?

I don't think there is a 225mm flywheel for a 5-bolt L18. Maybe I'm wrong. How about it Mike ?

 

I run a 7lb flywheel OS Giken twin disk set up, that is probably under 25lbs total.

It really revs fast, and engine braking is also quicker.

 

 

And to get away from wear on the clutch for pivot ball, I threw that whole mouse trap away, and went to this:

 

 

Personally, I have never run into a worn pivot ball due to a strong clutch, but some people have. Not sure why, maybe lack of lube.

[datzenmike]

One year only '74 620 trucks. L18 5 bolt 225mm clutch flywheel. Only one I know of.

 

 

In addition an L20B has more rotational mass as well, crank, rods, larger diameter pressure plate. Not much, but a few pounds.

 

I've never seen a ball worn. I always put a dab of lithium on them.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I've seen ball pivots worn thin, clutch arms with holes, cracks and even broken.

[G-Duax]

Supposedly, the Nismo pivot ball is harder, for using with pressure plates with strong springs.

[shacks510]

shacks, you probably have an L20B, right ?

I have an LZ22

[G-Duax]

Yup, something with a 6-bolt flywheel.

[banzai510(hainz)]

datsunroadsterparts.com has the Daiken pressure plate for the 200mm  nsc 581 partnumber

 

if this is a racecar I would think it would have a lighten flywheel in there already???????????  Findaza and others are like 380$ new and do you think its worth it?

[datzenmike]

Only for a race car. Every little thing adds up for the win. They get regular maintenance and replacement, not like DD.

[Michael Rankin]

I appreciate all the help, but I still can't find a supplier to confirm the parts will fit my car.

1.8 motor, 280Z turbo trans.  I need an aluminum flywheel and clutch.

Flywheel is 12" diameter, 120 tooth, 7.87" surface

Input shaft is 1" diameter, 24 spline.

I understand that the Roadster clutch is the best economical deal, but can't find a supplier who will match a clutch and flywheel.

 

any suggestions ?

 

thanks

[datzenmike]

I doubt that that massive boat anchor zx turbo T-5 will fit the 510 tunnel.

 

Better to get a non turbo 71B for your car. If using the Roadster clutch you need a 200mm bolt pattern flywheel.

 

For the cost of an aluminum one, have the stock wheel turned down to lighten it.

[G-Duax]

 

For the cost of an aluminum one, have the stock wheel turned down to lighten it.

 

And it will last a lot longer than the aluminum 3-piece junk.

[Xnke]

I doubt that that massive boat anchor zx turbo T-5 will fit the 510 tunnel.

 

Better to get a non turbo 71B for your car. If using the Roadster clutch you need a 200mm bolt pattern flywheel.

 

For the cost of an aluminum one, have the stock wheel turned down to lighten it.

 

Interesting...considering the T5 is lighter at 73lbs, shorter, and narrower than the 71B...an inch and a quarter shorter, 3/8" narrower, but 1" taller...

 

The 300ZX Turbo trans, however,  is 121lbs, and is a Huuuuuuge Bitch. It does not fit the 280ZX tunnel without a decent amount of BFH massaging.

[Doctor510]

Aluminum clutch, I doubt it UNICORN.  Measure the friction surface diameter, if 200mm, get a roadster clutch

[datzenmike]

Interesting...considering the T5 is lighter at 73lbs, shorter, and narrower than the 71B...an inch and a quarter shorter, 3/8" narrower, but 1" taller...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We are talking about the 280zx turbo 5 speed. In every way it is a boat anchor. Longer (slightly) wider and good luck getting the bell housing in a Datsun tunnel.

 

I just weighed my 280zx (non turbo) 5 speed. It weighs 62.2 pounds so no where near lighter.

[Xnke]

Are you weighing it with the oil in it? All the weights I listed are with oil, and the early 71-74 71B is lighter than the later 75-79 71B is lighter than the 80-86 71B, which is lighter than the 86-90 71C, which is still lighter than the 90-96 71D/E. (1996 F5W71E is 91lbs!)

 

They do fit in most Datsuns, considering you're going to run the same size and depth clutch in the bellhousing, with the same size flywheel, so internally they're the same size. They *Look* different, because the bellhousing is shorter. I've done quite a few T5's in 71B tunnels. They will not fit the older F4W63 tunnels, though, so early 510s and the like. People around here use them all the time-there are more 280ZXT donor cars out here I guess. (I have 4 L-series T5's, 3 F4W71B bellhousing-only, 3 FS5W71E transmissions, and 2 FS5R30A's in the shop for rebuilds/bellhousing conversions currently)

 

Knock off the inch-and-a-half long dust sleeve and they're actually a bit shorter than a standard long-tail 71B, although you already know there are three lengths of 71B...I can't remember the length of the shortest one off the top of my head.

[datzenmike]

Oil is 2 pounds a liter so 4 pounds more, still lighter.

 

Well what other Datsuns are there other than the Z car and 810/Maxima and truck that came with a 71B? All had the smaller F4W63A.... 521/510/610/710/A10 and the S10 had the FS5W63A dogleg. The 71B fits them and the T-5 is a struggle.... because of it's size. I have a zx 5 speed in my 710 and never even considered that it would not fit.

 

I've only seen 26" * and 31.5" 71B 5 speeds. 620, '79 and '81 zx, 85 S12 turbo and any number of 720 5 speeds including a long and short* 4x4 5 speed and an '85 diesel. All 31.5. If there is another length I've never heard of it.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I've run T5's in early 510's before. They fit.

 

Kind of a crappy trans though. A nicely built 71B would be a better choice.

[Xnke]

There are at least four lengths of 71 series transmissions, could be more but I haven't seen 'em.

 

There are:

 

26"

28"

31.5"

33.5"

 

The 26 and 31.5" units are the most common-I have a 28" unit from some kind of van thing that had a CD17 diesel in it, and the 33.5 is from the VG33ER powered Frontier pickup truck. (Yes, they still got 71 series transmissions, for some retarded reason they only got the FS5R30A in the 4WD models for 1996.) It's those long-long units that have the 24mm wide gearsets for 1-4, and there's enough room to throw out a few spacers and run double-row ball bearings on the main and countershaft midplate bearing locations, and you can run a double-row for the front countershaft bearing. The input shaft bearing is stuck being a single-row, though, nothing I could work out on uprating that one-but the needle bearing in the pocket of the input shaft could be beefed up with some input shaft gearsets. I wouldn't bore it for the bigger caged rollers unless it's one of the higher reduction ratios.

 

As far as what cars...I've never actually seen a surviving dogleg out here-Every 510 (never had one older than 72) I've worked on has had a 71B fitted by the time it got here, or has had an 3N71, or no trans at all. Actually having running-driving datto cars on the road is a rare thing this far east. There are plenty of 720's though.

 

As for shift feel, Nothing beats a well maintained T-5. The 71C comes close, but it's not as good. They're only good for 290ft-lbs input torque, though, before they really start to need upgraded internals. The 71C can usually handle about the same torque input, and the 71D/E will take 320ft-lbs without much complaint.

[datzenmike]

Ahhhh. You are lumping the 71B and 71C together. None of the 71C will fit an L series engine* while many of the 71B will. The '77 and up 280z, 280zx, 620, first year 720 (2wd) 810 and Maxima were all FS5W71B equipped five speeds that will bolt to any earlier L series 4 cylinder engines. No 71C will replace a 71B because of the length differences.

 

Those that are 28" and 33.5 are FS5W71C transmissions and are predominantly in '86.5 and up vehicles, although the '84 300zx (non turbo) was probably the first 71C installed vehicle.

 

 

* An FW5W71C can, with work, be converted for use on an L series engine by swapping the earlier 71B L front case that has the bolt pattern. There are bearings and shift rods to account for and the case needs to be machined. Then the drive shaft needs to be modified. In some cases the drive shaft has to be shortened anyway but in others like my 710 all you need is the automatic driveshaft as they are 31.5" long same as the 71B transmission.