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Front hub assembly differences


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#1 Lockleaf

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 08:21 PM

I want to figure out if a person can change their front hub offset by swapping different hubs on to their struts. Starting with the assumption that your car uses the larger A2/A6 bearing set, can you swap S12, m30, z31, etc hubs on to your 280zx struts (or whichever set you are using)? And do they have different wheel mounting surface (WMS) heights ( = different offset)?

I found part of a discussion on this topic on ozdat, but nothing more.

http://ozdat.com/for...hp?f=30&t=12911

Here's a pic stolen from there.

hub_zpslrlhyzeg.jpg

I most curious about wms differences between them, though i realize it could alter brake rotor location as well. Let's ignore that for now.

WMS= left side of yellow to right side of red.

According to the info on Ozdat:

S12 hubs- ylw=96.5mm, rd and blu=21mm, rear hub=55.5mm.
910 hubs- Are same as S12 above.
240K hubs- ylw=99mm, rd and blu=34mm, rear of hub=34mm.
Z31 (5stud) hubs- ylw=?, rd and blu=17.5mm, rear hub=57mm.
DR30 hubs- ylw=?, rd and blue=17.5mm, rear hub=?.


So adding "rear of hub" and "red and blue" we get:

S12: 76.5 mm
240K: 68 mm
Z31: 74.5 mm (5 lug)

Can any of you guys measure any other hubs you have laying around and post the measurements?

I'm hoping to measure my S12 5 lug hubs tomorrow and post that up.

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#2 toylet

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 08:31 PM

s12 5 lug hub is the same as the z31 5 lug early turbo/ late non turbo hub.



#3 flatcat19

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 08:34 PM

If you change the hub for offset you'd have to change calipers and discs too to be able to have brakes as the hub now is at a different mounting distance from caliper bracket bolts. Right?


Seems like too much work, R&D, expense. To the avail of nothing really fits together now.


Maybe a spacer could be used to make up the gap. Seems dodgy.

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#4 Lockleaf

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 08:39 PM

Noted. Now do you have any measurements to add?

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#5 thisismatt

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 08:41 PM

Yes.

Yes.

 

Also have to consider grease seals, because they are different and even if the bearings are the same the grease seals may be different sizes.


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#6 Lockleaf

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 08:43 PM

Are seals not attached to the hub? I dont recall the strut having the seals on it.

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#7 thisismatt

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 08:47 PM

Yes, but the spindle is machined with the two bearing surfaces as well as a separate grease seal surface.  This surface is different diameter between struts, eg it's different between the early 4-lug 300zx and the 280zx if I recall correctly.


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#8 thisismatt

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 08:49 PM

Here you can see the large diameter grease seal surface on the base of the spindle right before the powder coat.  These are 4-lug s12 200sx struts

 

DSCF2315.jpg


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#9 Lockleaf

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 09:13 PM

Got it. The 300z had a smaller seal. The larger seal on the 280zx covers most anything pre 83'.

20170125_215314_zpshldh5kww.jpg

'83-'86 use the smaller seal.

20170125_215925_zpsjea1ej1t.jpg

And an M30 seal is different yet again and shared with 87+ 300z.


20170125_220032_zpsqt6ykvtk.jpg

My brain is not seeing how that back section fits together with the seal back there on the strut. I will have to look at that tomorrow.

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#10 thisismatt

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 09:30 PM

On the outer side of the hub you have a machined surface for the outer bearing race to press into.  On the inside of the hub you have two machined surfaces, one larger diameter at the inside edge of the hub for the grease seal, and then a smaller one farther in for the inner bearing race.  On the spindle you have, from outside to inside, hole for cotter pin, thread, outer bearing surface, spindle spindle spindle, inner bearing surface, grease seal surface.


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#11 Lockleaf

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 10:02 PM

FWIW, okayfine over on the Realm reports he's running z31 hubs on 280zx struts and has not seen any negative impact with regard to the seals etc.

http://www.the510rea...pic.php?t=24149

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#12 toylet

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 08:17 PM

what are your goals? do you want 5 lug or 4 lug? do you want big brakes or no?what offset and size wheels do you want to run? In my garage I have ...88 300zx turbo hubs,m30 hubs,300zx non turbo 5 lug hubs, 280zx hubs, 200sx v6 hubs, 300zx 4 lug hubs.

 

The best ones to get for big brakes are the m30 hubs and struts can leave them as 4 lug or drill them to 5 lug. Most any newer big brake nissan caliper will bolt to it. There is a M30 at a junk yard by my house.



#13 Lockleaf

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 09:04 PM

I want a database of measurements people can play with in the future. M30 adds width, so what if they don't want that, but want the modern brake options? Etc.

I have a set of s12 v6 struts with 5 lug hubs which inspired the question. I will eventually be going back down to 4 lug. Yes I'm wondering what might bolt right on 4 lug, but I'm wondering ever so much more than that. So i thought an interchange/modifications database would be cool.

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#14 scooter

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 08:29 AM

Here you can see the large diameter grease seal surface on the base of the spindle right before the powder coat.  These are 4-lug s12 200sx struts
 
DSCF2315.jpg


These struts are on my car now :) these actually brought my wheels in half an inch compared to s10 200sx struts. Im also curious about this for the possibility of putting 5 lug z31 hubs on down the road. Also for caliper swaps as theres no performance pad that fits in a 4 cylinder s12 caliper. I want to try an s13 caliper and a toyota s12+8 caliper, theres also the thought of using a 280 zx hub which apparently brings your wheels in even more and use a slip over s13 rotor.

I can measure up the s10 hub and a s12 4 cylinder hub and post here.

#15 Lockleaf

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 09:36 AM

Please do measure those and post it up.

The s13 caliper wont fit without an adapter as it uses the modern bracket spacing. I know the Toyota one fits Z cars, so i assume it fits all the old spacing struts.

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#16 docbainey

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 04:53 PM

Im kinda ignorant about this sht and need to learn. So the larger bearing strut spindles, like a 75 610, or a 81 280zx, probably late 710s 510s and whatever else from the late 70s early 80s 200sx? Can all there hubs fit on any of those strut spindles? regardless of wheel mounting face and brake disc mounting face on the hub? It appears that the struts I have all have the same basic spindle dimensions. Bearing cntr to cntr, lngth and spindle/seal dia. Ratsun needs basic cadam!!!!!  I dont know what a2/a6 and s12 m30 s31 and the like refer to? Sorry about my ignorance.



#17 Lockleaf

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 05:51 PM

Hubs fitting different spindles its the point of this mostly dead discussion. I want to have that interchange available. But right now the answer is unknown.

A2/a6 are bearing part numbers.

S12 m30 z31 are Nissan chassis codes referring to specific generations of a car.

S12 is a mid eighties 200sx.

M30 isn't actually a chassis code its an early 90s infiniti two door named m30.

Z31 is late eighties 300zx.

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#18 docbainey

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 07:25 PM

what do a2/a6 bearings fit? spindle wise, I didn't know bearings could be called out that simplistically for dimensions



#19 Lockleaf

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 08:28 PM

Those bearings fit essentially every RWD Datsun/Nissan car newer than 72 up to early 90s except for 1200s and 210/310s.

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#20 docbainey

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 04:51 PM

Cool great info!!!  So would  any of those hubs fit onto any of those strut spindles since they all use the same bearings?  Im just thinking about bearing spacing or spindle length. You can have the same bearings but, say some are 3" apart and some are 4" apart? If the spindle/bearing spacing, length what ever, bearing cl to bearing cl is the same that is great to know. For me anyway! Thanks so much!