76' 620 Remote Ignitor fried?

[Seeker > 620 KC]

Excitedly bought this non-running 76' King Cab for a good price in a hurry between rainstorms last week. The owner passed away and I bought it from the son and daughter who had no operating history, been sitting 10 years.

 

Engine bay and truck looked pretty original, even had orig tool bag, red jack handle, rod, & jack with vinyl covers behind the seat. There were changes like wheels and aftermarket seat, but otherwise pretty intact. Door and eng bay ID tags Vins both matched title.

 

Put a battery in it and was happy to have all running lights, headlights, some dash lights, starter spun it over, but there was no spark at the plug. Instead of the matchbox EI it and has the remote I.E. igniter :(. Started by cleaning battery and starter terminals and was dissapointed to find this...

 

 

When I found the Gallo wine cork coil bracket shim I knew my excitement may have clouded my objectivity during the purchase! Cleaned the coil and there are no markings on it. pulled the coil wire at the dist cap, put a plug in the end and grounded it, has good spark.

 

 

Set the engine to TDC, pulled dist, called it a day due to rain. Researched it on Ratsun. Noticed a dull colored ground wire tab mounted on Dist, but no wire lead. will have to create one during install.

 

Today I did other stuff to the truck to let this issue get cold and let my mind think it thru while relaxed The only thing I did was clean the dizzy outside and test the vac advance unit with a vac gun, It made a noise once, but no breaker plate movement. I assume the vac unit is dead or the breaker plates are seized. The dizzy shaft has 2mm measured play, which I assume is not enough to keep it from firing, just make it operate poorly?

 

Not sure if this was making contact under the elect tape or if I broke it unraveling the tape and spade connector, but will make a better connection on install.

 

 

The dist bearing makes a dry growl when spun. My plan is to disassemble dizzy, clean, lube, make retainer if need be, and try it again. Make ground wire, or find missing one, & make better lead connections. If I screw it up I have a source for another remote igniter for $30. Not sure if orig dizzy or GM conversion is a better solution. ( if so do you have to disconnect remote igniter?)

 

Questions:

1) If I have spark coming out of coil lead, does that mean remote igniter is functioning?

Only reason I'm concerned is the pass floor and sea are wet. Not sure if heater core leaked, windshield seal is leaking (good possibility) and water may have gotten into igniter under dash, or if PO kids left door open in storm, and unit may have gotten wet?

 

2) if the guy used the wrong coil should I assume the remote igniter is fried?

 

3) if I disassemble the dizzy, how do I know the proper placement of the breaker plate and inductor plate? I can put them back in orig place (scratch awl) but it isn't running now???

 

 

Would appreciate any insight. Thx

[datzenmike]

Take the dizzy out but still wired up. Put plug in coil lead and spin the dizzy by hand.

 

 

Got spark???

 

 

A GM HEI unit is a good idea if needed.

[Dolomite]

If you have spark at all, the box is good. There's honestly too much uninformed hate for the remote ignitor setup, it's functionally identical to the overloved, overpriced matchbox. That being said, I'd do an hei module swap for piece of mind, the box can just quit out of the blue and leave you stranded. Mine ran great for years then one night I got home at 2am, went to start the car to go to work at 8am, and no spark. It's been nearly ten years on an hei with the only problem being an aftermarket coil, replaced with a '78 200sx stocker and it's golden. I keep an extra module in my glovebox just in case. Wiring is easy too.

 

Edit:New cap and rotor is obviously a good idea

[datzenmike]

The remote igniter has a current limiting device so you can't fry it by running too low an impedance coil. (the correct EI coil is the best so throw out those ideas of Axcell and MSG throwing lightening strikes through your plugs.)

 

There is also a preventative circuit that turns off current flow if the engine is not running. So if engine stalls the coil does not over heat.

 

There is a duty control circuit that sets the dwell time. Dwell remains close to the same at low speed and high.

 

 

The matchbox is basically the same thing but miniaturized.

 

Why would you use an MSG box that does the same thing????

[difrangia]

I use the GM remote igniter on the '78 L20B and on the E1 in the 64 that has the same distributor adapted. i believe the original igniter for the 620 is about $100 give-or-take a little, if you can find one. The 1986 Camaro module is $15 + or - a buck or two so that was a very attractive option for me.  Also the remote ignitor is/can be mounted out of the heat of the engineroom if desired for possibly longer life.

Steve

[Seeker > 620 KC]

Thought I saw a post once where Bonzai was motivated to make a plastic bearing cage for a remote EI distributor? but can't find the post now. Tried to PM him but he's not accepting msgs. Was wondering if it survived and run Long?

 

I pulled the 76 620 KC Dizzy to test for spark inspect and found it was completly corroded up and seriously growled when turned it by hand. It will take some time to find an upgrade or another, and it's a Sunday and raining...

 

Figured what the hell, even if it sparks it won't run for long before it burns up. took lots of pics, Tore it apart, and cleaned up almost everything and cleaned threads. I'm down to the multi plate pack with both sets of bearings. The metal retainer and bearings are intact, but the plastic one is coming out in pieces, and I'm missing one ball bearing' that I think I can find at a bike shop.

 

Was wondering if Bonzai or anyone has a template for the one he made, or has a pic of orig? I only have a 79 Nissan FSM so. Don't know what the orig looked like.

 

seeker

[john510]

Thought I saw a post once where Bonzai was motivated to make a plastic bearing cage for a remote EI distributor? but can't find the post now. Tried to PM him but he's not accepting msgs. Was wondering if it survived and run Long?

 

I pulled the 76 620 KC Dizzy to test for spark inspect and found it was completly corroded up and seriously growled when turned it by hand. It will take some time to find an upgrade or another, and it's a Sunday and raining...

 

Figured what the hell, even if it sparks it won't run for long before it burns up. took lots of pics, Tore it apart, and cleaned up almost everything and cleaned threads. I'm down to the multi plate pack with both sets of bearings. The metal retainer and bearings are intact, but the plastic one is coming out in pieces, and I'm missing one ball bearing' that I think I can find at a bike shop.

 

Was wondering if Bonzai or anyone has a template for the one he made, or has a pic of orig? I only have a 79 Nissan FSM so. Don't know what the orig looked like.

 

seeker

I might have a remote style distributor and hitachi black box if you're interested.

[Seeker > 620 KC]

Awesome! PM sent

 

I'd hope all remote igniters are the same part like the L20b dizzies, and not vehicle specific i.e.: 510. 620, etc?

[datzenmike]

Remote igniters were only available for the '78 model years with the exception of California cars that had some previous form of breakerless ignitions starting around '76?

 

For '79 and '80 the matchbox was used.

[Seeker > 620 KC]

Mike, Once again you are an incredible ever-present resource of information.

You're like Supernan, Always there for us in the midst of our disasters.

Thank you and the other mods for all the endless work /effort / time you put / into Ratsun.

I hope other members across the realm appreciate you as much.

Happy New Year!

[datzenmike]

Suck up.... but thanks just the same.  :lol:

[banzai510(hainz)]

partsgeek.com or Rockauto.com  had a clearance sale on that part recently

 

 

someone might have a spare near you.

 

If you live by me I have one to trouble shoot but you don't.(saving it for local help

[Datfish]

MSG box 

 edit to recognize the joke, sorry, I'm new here....

[datzenmike]

I purposely say that to show my disdain of something that doesn't do anything any better than the thing it replaces.    

[Seeker > 620 KC]

Thanks to Johns510 who hooked me up with a replacement dizzy and remote. Will check it out later this week.

[Seeker > 620 KC]

Hooked up replacement dizzy but not installed. Attached a ground wire to dizzy, other end to neg battery cable. Pulled one spark plug wire and attached one loose odd spark spark plug and grounded it to motor. Turned on key and rotated dizzy by hand. Got a spark thru dizzy!

 

Thank you Johns 510

 

Ran out of time again. Will try again with correct plug and see if I get a better spark.

 

Heard some other arcing. Turned off my porch light and headlamp and saw faint arcing between coil (incorrect coil) terminals (no rubber insulator caps like on the resistor,) or it occurred between coil terminal and center coil lead. It was so faint I couldn't tell. It happened when I turned the dizzy past two other cylinders vs (not all 3) . the one I pulled the plug for. Cleaned terminals, and repeated, Same results.

 

All plug wires look visually ok but are old, one taped at wire loom holder. wondering if two wires might be grounding out somewhere? Will try it again with correct plug and newer wires from my other truck this weekend.

[datzenmike]

Electricity ALWAYS seeks the easiest path to ground. What you must do is make the spark plug the easiest path. So good wires with good boots on the ends and spark plugs with clean porcelain insulators. Clean dry distributor cap and rotor and a good coil.

 

I just recently replaced my coil and once the old one was off you could see the tiny crack the spark was jumping out through to the negative terminal.

 

[Seeker > 620 KC]

Finally got some free weekend time without rain to get back to it, installed replacement dizzy, static timed it, & cleaned connections, and new battery cable ends. Sine it sat for 20 years plus...Pulled out the seized up thermostat, bypassed the heater, and flushed the cooling system in both directions till clear. Put in new thermostat and put it all back together. Plugged off all the open vac lines. Found the fuel pump wasn't sucking fuel from a can. Replaced fuel pump with a bigger used one I had, still no fuel. Primed all the lines and pump with a 720 elec pump, and the second mechanical pump started working, but I may have over pressured the carb, as it was leaking. Pulled out the elec pump, and it still leaked.

 

But The motor fired right up! I was happy as can be. Thanks again guys for the guidance and especially to mJohns510 for the fine and very affordable dizzy! Ran loud and low like a tractor because the muffler got knocked off rolling the trailer when I brought it home, and it only has the CAT on the exhaust pipe.

 

Ran for a minute or two a couple times withe the elec pump but I had to keep turning it off to avoid fuel running everywhere, even tried to idle one before the carb Ran out of fuel before hand. Got fuel flowing out of the carb intake nipple fitting. Its tight but fuel flowing out like mad and down the intake. Is there a needle and seat in it that might be stuck, or an internal pressure regulator?

 

Back to the manual to see how that seals.

[datzenmike]

Don't by-pass the heater by joining the hose in a loop. OK in the winter but when it gets hot you are running hot water from the head directly back into the engine. Be sure to block the flow somehow.

[Seeker > 620 KC]

Thanks Mike, but I only did that to flush the block and head back and forth.

 

The heater is all jacked up with leaves,dirt, sand, and other crap,  and the control valve is seized up. So I pulled the heater core out and did the same flush, and am rebuilding the heater control valve. Then I'll put it all back to the stock set up.

 

Will a soggy carb float be obvious if gas I pull the top off the carb? Test it in a bowl of gas? Or just sprig for a new one since I'm having issues?

[datzenmike]

Stock carb? Just 3 screws to remove the front to get at float.

 

Could be brass or phenolic like this one...

 

[Seeker > 620 KC]

Do the phenolic get soggy and half float? Is a bad one obvious?

[datzenmike]

Plastic are solid so can't sink. Brass ones could, though I've never seen one.

[Seeker > 620 KC]

Thanks, back to disassemble, inspect, and clean. Are the banjo fittings problematic for sealing? This vehicle was dead for 10 years, the banjo shifted when I slid on a new hose. Not sure if it leaked before or as a result of new hose and checking tightness. I assume it is a carbon type washer on each side.

[distributorguy]

Some of those plastic floats have a weight in grams molded into them.  They can absorb fuel over time, and when they exceed the listed weight, they should be replaced.   :thumbup:

Yes, they can partially sink.  You could experiment and set the float a bit higher if you wish.