Turbo SR Using Nitrous To Fill In Lag.

[paradime]

These Canadian guys are using nitrous to supplement low end troque effectively eliminating turbo lag. The dyno graphs are REALLY impressive. They are almost doubling bottom end torque from 117 to over 200 ft lbs at 2500 rpm. That's V8 numbers. I have zero experience with nitrous and any ill effects it has, but if it's shutting down at 4500 rpm once the turbo takes over, I would imagine it produces much less stress than using it at the top end of the power curve like drag guys. 

 

Any feed back or thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[G-Duax]

My personal feelings on bottle fed systems is wear ear plugs for when it goes BOOM..

 

It is definitely a plus for performance, but don't cheap-out on the system, and have someone who does NOS set ups a lot to set it up.

With the programmable system controllers, it should be possible to tune it to reduce delivery as boost comes up.

 

But like I said, seen way too many explosions to ever use one myself.

I prefer the master ECU being able to know when to down shift to not worry about low rpm boost.

If you want low end torque, buy a 'merican pig iron V8...

[paradime]

Yah, the BOOM thing is exactly what I'm afraid of.

 

Sorry, I probably should have clarified how and why I was considering this setup. My stock-ish internals SR20 swapped 510 with a GT3071r at 15psi is set up for autocross. I'm running a Link G4 programmable stand alone ecu and Bryan at Rebello Racing does my tuning. He's not a weekend warrior with a big bottle of laughing gas. Besides, this is a small sequential shot of 50hp, and 35hp at under 4500 rpm. Once the turbo takes over the nitrous is shut off completely.

 

Obviously, the issue I'm trying to overcome is bottom end lag. Coming out of tight corners, the "master ECU" needs to either downshifted into first, or keep it a 4K rpm and feather the shit out of the clutch. With 300hp at the wheels, that's not an easy trick when you're at the apex of a cramped 180 and you have a pissed off monster who wants out of it's cage. Neither of these options helps shave time off the clock though. If I can get 212 ft lbs of torque at 2500 rpm without adding the weight of all that pig iron, now that would shed time. 

 

I've seen some pretty bad ass dual charge systems with a turbo and a supercharger, but I don't have that kind of money.

[DISLEXICDIME]

Why not just get a smaller turbo that will spool faster

[scooter]

Small turbo still wont have the response nitrous does, also if they crank it up or turn it more a small turbo will start being the bottleneck. nitrous never goes boom, you need to mix it with fuel to do this. A dry shot like their doing is very safe.

 

That setup is just the start. If they know whats in it they can turn up the psi and the nitrous and have a serious time attack beast.

 

Pretty rad tech, building a map into the motec to run it. This would help dorifto guys when they have spots where they need a gear between gears.

 

I'd like to drive that car, it would be a freight train comming out of corners.

[That4doorKiD]

google higher compression on motors

[scooter]

Why

[Lockleaf]

Nitrous spooling turbo setups isn't new and it's super effective. If it's well setup to minimize the BOOM factor, I think the only major downsides are

 

1. You have another consumable to purchase.

2. You will quickly start to think the car is a dog if you aren't using the nitrous, so usually end up using quite often, leading back to the first point.

 

But as said, when designed well, it definately works

[Noflers]

Why

Lol, for that 14:1 turbo motor he's building.

[datzenmike]

google higher compression on motors

 

 

Why

 

 

Lol, for that 14:1 turbo motor he's building.

 

Guy said pretty standard SR so 10 to one? maybe?

 

 

 

Interesting use of nitrous, but..... other than drifting it seems too complex, too costly and although not for constant use... would be used constantly. (I would) Better to just resist the temptation. 

[DISLEXICDIME]

What exhaust and intake manifolds are you running and do you have aa external waste gate?

 

Are you using a ebc?

[paradime]

Guy said pretty standard SR so 10 to one? maybe?

 

 

 

Interesting use of nitrous, but..... other than drifting it seems too complex, too costly and although not for constant use... would be used constantly. (I would) Better to just resist the temptation. 

Stock SR is 8.5:1, only the 99 s15 and newer Silvias were 10:1

 

Resisting temptation is not why you build a fast car.

[paradime]

What exhaust and intake manifolds are you running and do you have aa external waste gate?

 

Are you using a ebc?

 

4" cold air intake no MAF, Greddy nock off intake mani, Stock cams, log exhaust mani, GT3071r twin scroll with external waste gate, and 3" from the down pipe to tail pipe.

 

I do have an EBC that is controlled by a Link G4 stand alone ECU. Aside from the nitrous bits. my set up should be good to go.

[datzenmike]

Maybe a tanker truck of nitrous and a long hose?

 

What does a 10 lb refill cost?

[DISLEXICDIME]

Well then you got all the bases covered.

I wonder what that thing would be like with a 336 rear end in it

[KoHeartsGPA]

Jeebus, para! Fucking beast mode :thumbup:

[paradime]

Well then you got all the bases covered.

I wonder what that thing would be like with a 336 rear end in it

 

3.36 would be great for Willow Springs, but for auto cross thats way too tall. It has a 3.90 r180 and topped out at 7500 rpm in 2nd it just breaks 60mph. Stupid quick.

 

I considered using a smaller 2871r for a while, did some research, talked to Bryan at Rebello and the guys at ATP Turbo near by in Hayward. I heard pretty much the same thing from everyone. Although it would spool up quicker, they are more like an no off switch making them much harder to modulate, and when boosting upwards of 16 plus psi, if held in boost for long periods of time, a smaller turbo is more prone to heat sink. In the grand scheme of things, for what I'm doing I think I got the better end of the trade off.

 

That being said, big HP numbers might look good on paper, but torque is what you feel in the seat of your pants. Short of building a 2.2L stroker SR, or some fancy way of shoving more mixture down it's throat at low rpm, this nitrous set up looks promising. 

[paradime]

Maybe a tanker truck of nitrous and a long hose?

 

What does a 10 lb refill cost?

Yes, there's nothing practical about this, but practicality and performance are mutually exclusive concepts are they not? True, this may be exploring ever higher thresholds of impracticality in that this costs more than just a tank of e85, but it's not intended for a daily driver after all. It's for the sole purpose of indulging a primitive desire to go faster than the other guy. Yah okay, I'm full of shit.  :lol:

 

All BS aside though, this system is switched on and off as needed, not left on as you drive to grandma's. There are a bunch of places selling nitrous near my hood, it's light industrial for mile on all directions. Airgas sells it for under $5 a lb. I have no idea how long that would last, but if it works, it damn sure would be $50 worth.

[DISLEXICDIME]

When I had 336 and did auto x with it I just left it in 2nd the whole time 

[scooter]

Maybe a tanker truck of nitrous and a long hose?

 

What does a 10 lb refill cost?

If you run a 10 pound bottle completely dry its 80 bucks to fill it up around here.

 

In 'murica its cheaper and can be had for 5 bucks a pound or less.

 

Im running a 75 shot and the bottle seems to last a while. Should be able to get a dozen 1/4 mile passes or so. For the whole summer i only filled it up twice. It really only gets turned on for the drags or if i wanna make an sti owner sad.

 

The way this drift car is set up it may be only spraying a couple seconds to half a second at a time. He should be able to go the weekend easily.

[paradime]

Thanks Scooter, 80.00 bucks Canadian wound be about 59.00 US so that's in the ball park. What are you running that on, your 200SX? How do you have it set up, and what's your experience been?

[scooter]

Yep, on the 200sx.

 

So far its been great, no nitrous backfires, i have it activate upon WOT, im using edelbrock e1 nozzles (the kit was cheaper) but you could use your favorite brand. I do see variances with bottle temperature. If the bottle is warm it hits harder for sure. I was kinda scared at first because its a dual weber setup, but it works great! It pulls like a freight train and has made many sti owners sad.

 

I use a secondary fuel pump which regulates at 6.5 psi when its flowing just for the nitrous, I also have a msd digital 6 plus which takes timing out when the system activates. The motor is high compression 12.3:1 but it doesnt show signs of detonation on the 75 shot on avgas.

 

The next add on is a bottle warmer, cause if its a cool night and you have half a bottle left, the 75 shot feels more like a 35 shot.

 

If you launch it off the line on the bottle it bakes the tires pretty hard, then second gear spins too but if you let off a lil you can modulate the nitrous easily and get it to hook up.

[datzenmike]

Ave gas is good but the nitrous also cools by evaporation.

[paradime]

God Damn Scooter! That my friend is a cool system. I wish I had that when I was still rocking an L.

 

I don't understand what you mean by a "secondary Fuel pump". Please excuse my ignorance, but isn't the fuel drawn from the reservoirs through the venturi via the vacuum of the motor? Would it actually suck the reservoir dry without more fuel being fed? If so, that is sick. Would this be considered a dry shot? 

 

Thanks for the feedback.

[datzenmike]

Nitrous isn't a fuel but it is an oxidizer. (but you know this) For the nitrous to work it needs a matching load of fuel added. When the nitrous is ON there is also an orifice dumping raw fuel in as well and it wouldn't be good to run lean.