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wheel width vs tire width and driveability


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#1 TheBirdistheWord

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 10:08 AM

I have found a few different things on the net about this, but nothing specific.   I have a pair of 14x10 -32 Watanabe RS that I will be putting behind some flares on the rear of the dime before spring time.  I am looking to pick up a pair of SSRs to "complete" my 14 inch wheel set.  The issue I am running into is the pair of SSRs i am currently eyeballing for the front are 14x7.5 -6.  They are 3 piece welded, and I plane to re barrel them, I am curious as to if I can install them as they are currently, with no ill effects, if I keep my tire size in check.  I plan to use 185s for the front and 205s for the rear, when I mentioned this to a drift clique I hang with they said it was going to be doomsday for my handling and ride characteristics.  I dont plan on drifting or pushing the car on my "new" $2k+ wheels, but Id still like to have some safe spirited fun at any given time.  

 

question:  are the negative effects of a 2.5 inch difference in width between front and rear wheels mitigated if tires size is kept under a 20mm difference?

 

thanks for any input!



#2 datzenmike

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 05:39 PM

I see no sense in 10" rims if you don't fill them with 9-10" wide tires. I think the 510 looks just fine with sensible 8 or 9" rims (or less even) and tires. But this is just me. Running narrower tires on the front assumes slightly less traction than the rears and would tend to under steer when pushed hard. Am I reading this right? you are having two different makes of rims on the car?????? WTF?

 

 

185 and 205 is meaningless unless you include the 75, 70, 60 or 50. The 510 uses a tire about 23"-23.5" diameter so you don't want a 14" tire that is taller as it upsets the looks, performance and the speedometer.

 

A 205/75R14 is going to be over 26" tall and 8" wide on a 10" rim????? well not so good 

 

A 205/60R14 is also 8" wide but 23.5" tall and very close to the 510's original tire size. Wider rim needs wide tire....

 

A 225/50R14 is 22.86" and 8.8" wide. Almost 9" tire on a 10" rim will look better.

A 235/50R14 is 23.25" and 9.25" wide

 

 

Fronts I don't think you want larger diameter tires in the back and short in the front. It will start to look like a AA fuel dragster.

 

A 170/70R14  is 23.37" tall and 6.7" wide. This gives a 2.5" difference in tire widths front to back and still the same relative diameter to the original 5:60 X 13 tires that came on it.

 

 

I have no idea if these tire sizes are available.


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#3 datsunfreak

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 06:50 PM

question:  are the negative effects of a 2.5 inch difference in width between front and rear wheels mitigated if tires size is kept under a 20mm difference?

 

You'd think so, but no. 510s are already prone to understeer. By running staggered tire sizes you will make this worse. even if it's just a 20mm difference. 

 

 

 

 they said it was going to be doomsday for my handling and ride characteristics

 

That's just a lot of hyperbole, to be sure. It's just going to make it understeer more at the limit. 


It's your car, just don't ruin it.

 

It's also not my money, so i'll suggest the most expensive option. 

 

 


#4 datzenmike

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 07:02 PM

All cars are built with under steer designed in rather than over steer. It's assumed that the average limited skills idiot driver cannot figure out over steer and correct for it, but understeer will result in a knee jerk driver reaction of letting off the gas and applying the brake. Both of which forces weight to the front and increases front wheel traction and is the correct action to correct under steer and the wrong action for over steer. By knowing what the driver will do instinctively, the car is designed to take advantage of this and all is well, even though the driver has no clue and oblivious.


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#5 datsunfreak

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 07:07 PM

All cars are built with under steer designed in rather than over steer.

 

Most, not all. 

 

 

the car is designed to take advantage of this and all is well, even though the driver has no clue and oblivious.

 

I'm hoping you don't mean all drivers. 

 

 

And while understeer might be better for joe schmo, it is the enemy of fun.   B)


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It's also not my money, so i'll suggest the most expensive option. 

 

 


#6 TheBirdistheWord

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 08:14 PM

I see no sense in 10" rims if you don't fill them with 9-10" wide tires. I think the 510 looks just fine with sensible 8 or 9" rims (or less even) and tires. But this is just me. Running narrower tires on the front assumes slightly less traction than the rears and would tend to under steer when pushed hard. Am I reading this right? you are having two different makes of rims on the car?????? WTF?

 

 

185 and 205 is meaningless unless you include the 75, 70, 60 or 50. The 510 uses a tire about 23"-23.5" diameter so you don't want a 14" tire that is taller as it upsets the looks, performance and the speedometer.

 

A 205/75R14 is going to be over 26" tall and 8" wide on a 10" rim????? well not so good 

 

A 205/60R14 is also 8" wide but 23.5" tall and very close to the 510's original tire size. Wider rim needs wide tire....

 

A 225/50R14 is 22.86" and 8.8" wide. Almost 9" tire on a 10" rim will look better.

A 235/50R14 is 23.25" and 9.25" wide

 

 

Fronts I don't think you want larger diameter tires in the back and short in the front. It will start to look like a AA fuel dragster.

 

A 170/70R14  is 23.37" tall and 6.7" wide. This gives a 2.5" difference in tire widths front to back and still the same relative diameter to the original 5:60 X 13 tires that came on it.

 

 

I have no idea if these tire sizes are available.

your objections are noted, thank you for the input!  I understand its a bit sacrilegious to flare a 510, i am going for a very specific look.  I have 205/60s for the Wats and I was planning on using 185/60s or 185/65s for the front to maintain a close overall diameter.  Narrower in the front for aesthetic, but if its more sensible to square the tire size I will.   Why such a reaction to having two sets of rims? I like contrast, Wats arent rebuildable and finding a 14x9 low offset pair will be way more of a chore than finding some other era correct 3 piece wheels and re barreling them.  hell, I got lucky I found the 10s I have now!

 

You'd think so, but no. 510s are already prone to understeer. By running staggered tire sizes you will make this worse. even if it's just a 20mm difference. 

 

 

That's just a lot of hyperbole, to be sure. It's just going to make it understeer more at the limit. 

thanks!



#7 datzenmike

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 09:06 PM

You talk about the aesthetic of narrow fronts and fat rears, and I can understand flairs for a certain look but run different style rims on both???? It will look like you pulled them from a dumpster or couldn't afford to make it look right. Unfinished or borrowed.

 

No objection to the different size just not running 7" on a 10" rim. It will look like a failed stretch tire. Wider rims need wider tires or really, what's the point?


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#8 TheBirdistheWord

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 10:52 PM

im on a bit of a ratty/weathered hype, and I agree, if not done correctly, the rim and tire selection can make or break the look.  but with my current pair of Wats and a clean re-barreled low offset 9" pair of SSRs or Advans im betting ill make the look! 



#9 datzenmike

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 06:21 AM

It's your canvas....


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#10 Noflers

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 07:12 AM

Based on that L20B you've got, I can't see the need for wide tires, let alone 10" wide. You should have plenty of grip... Or no?



#11 datzenmike

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 07:25 AM

I think it's for a 'look', Like (but not) herra frush, stretch etc. Narrower fronts always make the rears look wider and compliment a RWD car. Ten inch is way more than I would run or flairs but not saying this is wrong. Styles come into fashion and then disappear. Have fun.


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#12 Noflers

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 07:35 AM

Ahh, yes, aesthetics>function. 



#13 datzenmike

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 07:43 AM

Well I didn't want to say that but..... yes.


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#14 DaBlist

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 07:56 AM

Rear sway bar sizing can help transfer cornering forces off the front tires helping to remove understeer all the way to inducing oversteer depending on the set up


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#15 Dolomite

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 11:37 AM

OP is all mixed up, last I checked SSR is a manufacturer not a model. Watanabes not being able to be rebarrelled?, depends on which ones you get. My SSR watanabe RS eights have a removable center section, better than that they have staggered offset so the wider rear lip makes the rears look wider whilst being the same width as the fronts. The result is neutral handling with ridiculous turn in.
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#16 datsunfreak

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 04:22 PM

better than that they have staggered offset so the wider rear lip makes the rears look wider whilst being the same width as the fronts. The result is neutral handling with ridiculous turn in.

 

This is the way I'd lean. Same widths, staggered offsets.  :thumbup:


It's your car, just don't ruin it.

 

It's also not my money, so i'll suggest the most expensive option. 

 

 


#17 thisismatt

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 07:50 PM

The difference between 185 and 205 is not 2.5", it's just over 3/4"...not really that much.


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#18 TheBirdistheWord

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 08:47 AM

I definitely expected some heat for this, especially from the old timers.  I can only assume the neighsayers in the thread arent familiar with Bosozoku style from japan.  its visually loud, and inherently anti culture, two things which resonate with me deeply.  I strongly recommend a google search for it, even if just to observe and accept another form of culture rather than "thats dumb because it's not what 510 guys do, MURICA!"  Furthermore, the continuous lateral force created by drifting is more violent to a car (read: wheels) than most forms of racing, and even though they run extensive suspension modifications their wheel and offset combinations can get pretty darn wild.  

 

Watanabe manufactured the RS8 for SSR, which is a two piece wheel, I have an authentic pair of watanabe RS which is a one piece cast.  

 

If overall diameter and width is king for handling characteristics, the answer to my original question would be,   "the difference between rim width, aesthetics withholding, is mitigated by proper tire width, and overall diameter."  is that correct?

 

edit: grammar 



#19 Lockleaf

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 10:17 AM

Rim width to tire width will change handling characteristics, but only at the extreme edge of driving. Sidewall contour will cause changes as your vehicle rolls onto different parts of the tread. Meaning stretched sidewall, vertical, or muscle car bulged style. Each will react a little differently.

And before you go getting all self righteous and uppity, realize this forum has a thread dedicated to bozo. Yes, we know what it is. Also note, just because something is a culture doesn't mean we can't think negatively about it. Bozo is form over function, many people are function over form. Who cares.

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#20 paradime

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 06:27 PM

I definitely expected some heat for this, especially from the old timers.  I can only assume the neighsayers in the thread arent familiar with Bosozoku style from japan.  its visually loud, and inherently anti culture, two things which resonate with me deeply.  I strongly recommend a google search for it, even if just to observe and accept another form of culture rather than "thats dumb because it's not what 510 guys do, MURICA!"  
edit: grammar

 
Bosozoku, LOL I think you mean Shakotan AKA stance, a mild variant of Bosozoku that hipsters emulate here in MURICA. Bosozoku is a JDM working class counter culture with motorcycle gang beginnings. They are inherently anti *popular* culture
 
Is this the look you're going for?

 
Or this?


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