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Ok, took off head and now I've got concerns. L20b


KoHeartsGPA

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Long story short, radiator leaked out most of the coolant by the time i arrived to an event, water temp read 235° on the guage when i shut her off, sensor is hooked up to the thermostat housing like the factory one, topped her off and fired right up, lost compression on #2, air bubbles on coolant....yeah obviously head gasket went, made the trip back home no problem other than using water, but made it home (131 miles).

 

Took her apart today and got few pics to show, maybe one of you can spot something im not seeing?

 

20161009_174631.jpg

 

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Lots of oil on intake valves #1 & #2 not as bad on #3 & #4, exhaust valve guides on #3 & #4 are starting to seap....

 

20161009_174519.jpg

 

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This is the only part of the head gasket that was not stuck onto the head, it was loose there right between cylinder #2 & #3...

 

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The only cylinder that had traces of coolant in it was #2, but judging by how the exhaust port look, i suspect #3 was burning coolant as well. Fel-Pro head gasket kit arrived couple days ago, that's pure quality, i wish i would have got that when i built this thing, i used what came in the rebuild kit from summit racing.

 

Tomorrow im taking the head to get tested, if it survived I'm going to have it rebuilt, head is a W58 closed chamber, i love the torque and power on this is motor, even on 3 cylinder she pulled hard on the grades :thumbup:

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One thing that everyone needs to remember when they loose a head gasket but continue to drive it, when you put the radiator cap back on, you do not put it on tight, you put it on loose, or leave it off completely depending on the situation, that way when it warms up it doesn't force water into the cylinders or oil, as no pressure is built up to force it into the water or oil.

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If you have a gauge, why would you continue driving if it's overheating? Apparently not every Datsun owner knows never to over heat an aluminum head on an iron block. Well what ever. Here we are at the autopsy.

 

 

20161009_174631.jpg

 

#2 was getting the most coolant as shown by the steam cleaned piston, so was #4 but less or for less time then #1 and lest was #3.

 

20161009_173027.jpg

 

Again, steam cleaning clearly evident on #2 and some slightly on #4 on the head also.

 

 

Check head warp.

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The temp was going from 180° to 195° on stop and go traffic, as i pulled into the campground it shot up in a hurry from 195° to 235°, i didn't run it long maybe 20 to 30 seconds maybe even less, when i noticed the spike i immediately shut her off as it climbed.

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At the time you were burning oil too. I see seepage on the valve stems. It's possible the guide's are worn. But most of the oil was probably coming in when the head warped from being overheated.

 

Get that head inspected and it will probably be good to go once it's been surfaced and the valve guides are replaced. Again, if the shop decks the head, ask them to shim the cam towers otherwise your valve timing will be out of wack.

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20161009_174631.jpg

 

Wouldn't have gone 131 miles and been this clean so it's been eating coolant all the way home. Looks like ALL cylinders; are getting some water. Can't really tell on the surfaces or the gasket where or if the water is getting in.... AND if the gasket is not sealing, there is no obvious compression leaks either.

 

Aluminum expands twice as much as iron. If it gets super hot (like no coolant in it) it may have expanded and compressed the head or intake gaskets. When cooled back to normal maybe they would seep coolant into the cylinders?

 

 

Wow. look at how clean the #2 exhaust header port is. This is a square port header on a round port head.

 

Headers are often the cause of poor seal to the manifold gasket, although yours looks like it was tight. The bottom studs are shared with the intake and a 'washer' bridges across the both header and intake flanges. If one is thicker than the other the bolt will not clamp properly. Is it possible the intake was sucking coolant from the coolant passages in them?

 

 

For now just do the obvious. Have the head checked for warp, just in case. New gaskets and see how she runs. Maybe running will provide some new clues, hopefully.... it just runs fine.

 

 

Are you running the coolant by-pass hose from the intake and the thermostat housing??? Can't see it in your first picture. I highly recommend this, even more so with a header.

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Yes #2 was using most if not all the coolant, here's plug #2..

20160828_194912.jpg

 

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The othet 3 didn't show trace of coolant..

 

Yes Mike i have a bypass, its been like that for 2 years since i started driving her, I'm going to plug both ends when i put her back together, the coolant however wasn't running through it because i had the hose choked at one end, no circulation.

 

The Header and intake manifold were nice and tight as the nuts all clicked upon loosening of them, same with head bolts, this motor has the ARP head bolts, I'm wondering if i should get a new set or re-use these, Julian from the realm told me to use them whem i bought the motor from him in 2013 because he only had put 1,000 miles on it before one of his rod bearings spun and he pulled it, he gave be a great deal on it ($400) and basically i used everything except the block, i had one that i sent out to clean up, i put just over 1k miles on it, i haven't done any research on ARP yet to determine whether i can or not re-use again....any thoughts on ARP?

 

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I follow the ARP install instructions word for word and they all came off nicely, i didn't have to wrestle any.

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Are ARP bolts and studs re-usable?

Yes. As long as the fasteners have been installed and torqued correctly, and show no visible signs of damage, they can be re-used. If they show any signs of thread galling or corrosion, they should be replaced. In the case of rod bolts, if any of them have taken a permanent set and have stretched by .001” or longer, you should replace them immediately. See page 29 in the catalog for more detailed information on this critical measurement.

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Just got off the phone with Bob from Drummond Automotive Machine, 50 years of experience and within a minute of talking to him i knew he's the man for the job, pressure check the head, then measure to see if its been resurfaced before and how much, most likely do shims on towers, no big deal since valve guides need to be replaced and whatever else it might need.

 

Loading head on trunk and off to Drummond!

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Always run the by pass and the coolant cooled intake. There is no down side to this. Engine will warm up sooner and temp gauge will be more accurate.

 

If the head isn't warped, run it.

 

Not seeing the need for new valve guides unless the clearances are checked and it's indicated.

 

Measure valve cover surface to HG surface. Should be 4.248" if less it was shaved.

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So...coversation with Bob was quite insightful, turns out he worked for Dave Rebello building racing engines for Datsun, i took with me the Fel-Pro head gasket kit i bought and he immediately said that's a no-no for these motors, he adviced against that head gasket, rest is ok to use, instead he recommended Japanese made Victor Reinz head gasket (witch o just got done ordering 2 on ebay for $59) he told me when he worked with Dave they had issues with Fel-Pro, they are too rubbery making them harder to settle in, so I'm going to trust his experience and go with his recommended head gasket.

 

He also pin pointed as to where the head gasket failed and most importantly why it failed, the 230°just contributed but not the cause, he pointed out the roughness of the surface of the head where it sits onto the head gasket, he said it needs to be smooth enough where you can run your finger nail and not feel a thing, this surface is rough and that's why it failed.

 

He asked me how long have I've been having cooland dissapear from radiator, i told him I've been chasing a leak for few months, then he said "well, i bet this has been using coolant since and what you think might be the radiator was infact the head gasket starting to fail due to the rough surface"......he has a good point!, he also noted it is a very good head, closed chamber W58 are hard to find.

 

 

So now I'll wait for his call, he only charged me $50 to do the pressure test, half of the other local shops, plus his Rebello experience and 50 years doing this is a huge BONUS.

 

Will see, fingers crossed!

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So...coversation with Bob was quite insightful, turns out he worked for Dave Rebello building racing engines for Datsun, i took with me the Fel-Pro head gasket kit i bought and he immediately said that's a no-no for these motors, he adviced against that head gasket, rest is ok to use, instead he recommended Japanese made Victor Reinz head gasket (witch o just got done ordering 2 on ebay for $59) he told me when he worked with Dave they had issues with Fel-Pro, they are too rubbery making them harder to settle in, so I'm going to trust his experience and go with his recommended head gasket.

 

He also pin pointed as to where the head gasket failed and most importantly why it failed, the 230°just contributed but not the cause, he pointed out the roughness of the surface of the head where it sits onto the head gasket, he said it needs to be smooth enough where you can run your finger nail and not feel a thing, this surface is rough and that's why it failed.

 

He asked me how long have I've been having cooland dissapear from radiator, i told him I've been chasing a leak for few months, then he said "well, i bet this has been using coolant since and what you think might be the radiator was infact the head gasket starting to fail due to the rough surface"......he has a good point!, he also noted it is a very good head, closed chamber W58 are hard to find.

 

 

So now I'll wait for his call, he only charged me $50 to do the pressure test, half of the other local shops, plus his Rebello experience and 50 years doing this is a huge BONUS.

 

Will see, fingers crossed!

 

 

Good stuff from Bob! Never had an issue with Felpro, but I trust his judgement. Victor Reinz good stuff too. Never knew his history with Rebello. What a baller... and right in our back yard.

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You'll have to excuse my ignorance....i don't follow....wacha talking about, Willis???

OK, this is the bypass hose arrangement, the hose comes from the passenger side just above where the lower radiator hose connects to the block, it comes around the front of the engine and goes to the intake manifold via between the block and distributor, but before it gets to the distributor it has a "T", the short hose comes off that "T" and goes to the thermostat housing, this is the bypass for the thermostat, if you do not have this hose then you have an L16 thermostat housing, this means that you need to have a thermostat with an eighth inch hole in it, as far as I know they don't sell thermostats with holes in them anymore, but you might be able to get one from Nissan, but I would just drill a hole in one and call it good.

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