Scgreen620 Posted September 22, 2016 Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 Ok let me begin so this might be a bit easier I broke two u joints this year didn't know why until i talked to a mechanic since I do mostly everything my self I though it was just a bad u joint ... He said my drive shaft might be un balanced but the two shops I talked to said that those aren't balanceble? I took a look of the whole drive shaft and the differential and I noticed that it had a lot play before the wheels started spinning ... My question is can I get the differential fixed or do I have to swap it for another one? I live in LA I have no clue on who to go to on this one... I will try to get the shaft fixed because it does have some play in the u joint holes ... Thanks all the help I can get works 2 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted September 22, 2016 Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 You may think it's a lot (and in truth it may be) but maybe it isn't as you are not the expert. There definitely is some gear lash, there has to be to work properly. If it is worn and very loose it can be replaced. 3 Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted September 22, 2016 Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 I have never sold an H190 3rd member(pumpkin) with more than an eighth inch movement at the pinion flange(where the driveline connects). I have and have seen over a half inch play/movement at the pinion flange without any noise at any speed, but all the noisy rearends I have had have had more than a half inch play/movement at the pinion flange. 2 Quote Link to comment
Scgreen620 Posted September 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 You may think it's a lot (and in truth it may be) but maybe it isn't as you are not the expert. There definitely is some gear lash, there has to be to work properly. If it is worn and very loose it can be replaced. I'm definitely not an expert I have never sold an H190 3rd member(pumpkin) with more than an eighth inch movement at the pinion flange(where the driveline connects). I have and have seen over a half inch play/movement at the pinion flange without any noise at any speed, but all the noisy rearends I have had have had more than a half inch play/movement at the pinion flange. Can't really tell if it half inch but when I do accelerate it makes a ping! Noise I have to let the clutch out slower than normal to not hear that pinging noise when I take off ... I can't hear it when I'm changing gears due to the fact that My trucks exhaust is so loud ... So you guys are saying it's normal to have play in the differential 1 Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted September 22, 2016 Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 If you have a clang when you let out the clutch then you need to fix the U-joints now, that clang/ping is the driveline acting like a musical devise, it notes substantial play in either the driveline or 3rd member, mine was the 3rd member and it was quite loud, and the 3rd member was wasted. I like a 1/16th inch play/lash in the pinion flange, but these auto parts are getting old, and it's hard to find perfect anymore, if it don't make noise, use it till it does, but fix the u-joints, they should have no play at all. 1 Quote Link to comment
Scgreen620 Posted September 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 If you have a clang when you let out the clutch then you need to fix the U-joints now, that clang/ping is the driveline acting like a musical devise, it notes substantial play in either the driveline or 3rd member, mine was the 3rd member and it was quite loud, and the 3rd member was wasted. I like a 1/16th inch play/lash in the pinion flange, but these auto parts are getting old, and it's hard to find perfect anymore, if it don't make noise, use it till it does, but fix the u-joints, they should have no play at all. I replaced all the u joints not to long ago their made in Japan .. The one that just broke was the one closer to the differential it has broken twice this year .. I replaced it with an autozone brand one and it keeps doing the ping noise 1 Quote Link to comment
Scgreen620 Posted September 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 I checked all the u joints to see if there was play but their all tight no play the only one that's some what wiggly is the one that recently broke I was on the freeway when it snapped and it kinda wore out the piece that holds it 1 Quote Link to comment
Scgreen620 Posted September 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 i think my pinion flange closer to the differential has more than 1/8 play I feel like the differential is so worn out it has more play .. I might be wrong but everything in the drive shaft seems solid 1 Quote Link to comment
Scgreen620 Posted September 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 Is the drive shaft fixable ? 1 Quote Link to comment
Charlie69 Posted September 22, 2016 Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 Did you grease the u-joints after install? how often do you grease your u-joints? Should be every oil change. 2 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted September 22, 2016 Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 I'm definitely not an expert Can't really tell if it half inch but when I do accelerate it makes a ping! Noise I have to let the clutch out slower than normal to not hear that pinging noise when I take off ... I can't hear it when I'm changing gears due to the fact that My trucks exhaust is so loud ... So you guys are saying it's normal to have play in the differential A ping sound like the drive shaft is being tapped with a hammer is one of the U joints. They usually do this when dry, the needle bearings seize and then snap loose. If the yoke that holds the U joint is damaged then this is likely the problem if you have done through two this year. Yes, it's normal to have some play in the differential. I'm no expert either so go with what wayno says. 1 Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted September 22, 2016 Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 Is the drive shaft fixable ? You have put new U-joints in it before, so it is fixable. You have to check every U-joint, I have tried to check them in the truck and found no play, but when I pulled the driveline I found play, in the end you should pull the driveline and check every u-joint individually, if they are all good then the rearend is the next thing to check. I also would pull the fill bung(plug) in the rearend, then stick your finger in the hole and feel for gear oil, it should be right there at the same level as the bung, if you cannot feel any gear oil, well that would be bad, now if it does have gear oil in it, what color is the oil? I had a rearend clanging every time I let out the clutch in first, most the time the clang happened after I started moving, not right when I let the clutch out, maybe a second afterwards, and it didn't do it in any other gear, my driveline was fine, it turned out to be the rearend carrier, there is a shaft that went between the 2 spider gears that are just opposite of the side spider gears that the axles go into, this shaft had broken, it had also worn the carrier case that it fit into, it had ovaled the holes it fit into, so broken and oval holes gave the pinion flange a lot of play, this is why my driveline clanged like a wind chime. I was actually quite lucky that the spiders didn't just explode and leave me stranded. Here is a photo of the worn carrier. 3 Quote Link to comment
distributorguy Posted September 22, 2016 Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 Is the center bearing carrier loose? That'll eat U-joints. 1 Quote Link to comment
Scgreen620 Posted September 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 Did you grease the u-joints after install? how often do you grease your u-joints? Should be every oil change. I put grease when I first installed them.. I did not know you had to check them every oil change this is the second oil change I do 1 Quote Link to comment
Scgreen620 Posted September 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 You have put new U-joints in it before, so it is fixable. You have to check every U-joint, I have tried to check them in the truck and found no play, but when I pulled the driveline I found play, in the end you should pull the driveline and check every u-joint individually, if they are all good then the rearend is the next thing to check. I also would pull the fill bung(plug) in the rearend, then stick your finger in the hole and feel for gear oil, it should be right there at the same level as the bung, if you cannot feel any gear oil, well that would be bad, now if it does have gear oil in it, what color is the oil? I had a rearend clanging every time I let out the clutch in first, most the time the clang happened after I started moving, not right when I let the clutch out, maybe a second afterwards, and it didn't do it in any other gear, my driveline was fine, it turned out to be the rearend carrier, there is a shaft that went between the 2 spider gears that are just opposite of the side spider gears that the axles go into, this shaft had broken, it had also worn the carrier case that it fit into, it had ovaled the holes it fit into, so broken and oval holes gave the pinion flange a lot of play, this is why my driveline clanged like a wind chime. I was actually quite lucky that the spiders didn't just explode and leave me stranded. Here is a photo of the worn carrier. I did check all the u joints the two in the front those are perfect no play what so over ... The one in the rear barely moves but that's just me being anal ... It sounds like I'm having your problem I changed the diferential oil 2 months ago I've been reading on upgrading to a 720 part I'm not sure if you've done it ? How did you fix yours? Quote Link to comment
Scgreen620 Posted September 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 Is the center bearing carrier loose? That'll eat U-joints. No that one is brand new too only a couple months old Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted September 23, 2016 Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 I did check all the u joints the two in the front those are perfect no play what so over ... The one in the rear barely moves but that's just me being anal ... There should be NO movement whatever in the U joint, except turning. If you feel any wiggle there's a problem. The amount of clearance is so small you would need special measuring devices to actually measure it. You said the mount holes were worn or damaged? This is the problem. You can't go through 2 U joints in a year. 1 Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted September 23, 2016 Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 I did check all the u joints the two in the front those are perfect no play what so over ... The one in the rear barely moves but that's just me being anal ... It sounds like I'm having your problem I changed the diferential oil 2 months ago I've been reading on upgrading to a 720 part I'm not sure if you've done it ? How did you fix yours? That is not an H190 3rd member in the photo, that was a C200 dually axle like what is in the late 720 4X4 trucks, but the point I was making is if the 3rd member has a lot of play like that C200 had, it will make the driveline clang, and mine clanged really loud. I fixed it by going to the wrecking yard and buying a 4X4 carrier out of a late 4X4 720 truck with a C200 rearend, I removed the carrier from the housing, removed the ring gear, and then put the carrier with my ring gear on it in my C200 housing, and it worked great. What color was the differential oil that you removed 2 months ago, dark silver? What color is it now? If it's not almost the same color it was when you put it in, then that might be an issue. What I mean by play in the pinion flange is I grab the driveline/pinion flange with the transmission in neutral, with the e-brake on I twist on the driveline/pinion flange, if it moves more than an eighth inch I start to worry, if it moves more than a half inch I start looking for another one. I grabbed my driveline and started twisting on it back and forth, and it kinda made the noise I was hearing, that was when I realized where the issue was as I could hear it clanking inside the rearend. I have had 3rd members with lots of play, they didn't make noise of any kind, but the oil inside wasn't amber anymore, eventually they started howling. 1 Quote Link to comment
Charlie69 Posted September 23, 2016 Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 I put grease when I first installed them.. I did not know you had to check them every oil change this is the second oil change I do The u-joints I buy have grease zerks on one of the caps. This makes greasing them easy. Quote Link to comment
Scgreen620 Posted September 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 There should be NO movement whatever in the U joint, except turning. If you feel any wiggle there's a problem. The amount of clearance is so small you would need special measuring devices to actually measure it. You said the mount holes were worn or damaged? This is the problem. You can't go through 2 U joints in a year. It doesn't move to where I can see light the u joint head just turns a bit but doesn't wiggle but I am thinking of getting that piece new Quote Link to comment
Scgreen620 Posted September 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 That is not an H190 3rd member in the photo, that was a C200 dually axle like what is in the late 720 4X4 trucks, but the point I was making is if the 3rd member has a lot of play like that C200 had, it will make the driveline clang, and mine clanged really loud. I fixed it by going to the wrecking yard and buying a 4X4 carrier out of a late 4X4 720 truck with a C200 rearend, I removed the carrier from the housing, removed the ring gear, and then put the carrier with my ring gear on it in my C200 housing, and it worked great. What color was the differential oil that you removed 2 months ago, dark silver? What color is it now? If it's not almost the same color it was when you put it in, then that might be an issue. What I mean by play in the pinion flange is I grab the driveline/pinion flange with the transmission in neutral, with the e-brake on I twist on the driveline/pinion flange, if it moves more than an eighth inch I start to worry, if it moves more than a half inch I start looking for another one. I grabbed my driveline and started twisting on it back and forth, and it kinda made the noise I was hearing, that was when I realized where the issue was as I could hear it clanking inside the rearend. I have had 3rd members with lots of play, they didn't make noise of any kind, but the oil inside wasn't amber anymore, eventually they started howling. Ok I did that and it turns maybe about 1/4 inch until I see the wheels spin and if I turn it hard that's when I hear a ping ... When I changed the oil it was just dark no gray or any other color just dark oil So I should just swap it for a 720 3rd member if that's what it's called? Quote Link to comment
Scgreen620 Posted September 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 Where the hell am I going to find a 720 diferential in Los Angeles most trucks here are dismantled before they hit the ground haha I'm exaggerating but that's how it is here Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted September 23, 2016 Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 All truck H190s are the same except for the 320, and that is what you have in your 620. The H190 that you can use came in the 520, 521, 620, and the 720, now they came with different ratios also, I am not sure what ratio was in the 78 620, maybe the 411, that said until you know what the issue actually is for sure, don't get excited. Does it only clang once when you start out, and only in first gear just after you give it the gas pedal? Check the diff oil level and color again. Quote Link to comment
Scgreen620 Posted September 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 It clangs when I take off and sometimes when I'm in traffic .. Like when inaccerate getting ready to shift then traffic stops so I let off the gas then it clangs Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted September 23, 2016 Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 It clangs when I take off and sometimes when I'm in traffic .. Like when inaccerate getting ready to shift then traffic stops so I let off the gas then it clangs As I said, check the gear oil level and color. Quote Link to comment
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