LZ23 question

[wayno]

So I had another Z22 block built, but I might have screwed up.
The first one I had built was made out of a late Z22E with EFI block from a car, and it turned out great, everything looked normal when I put it together.
Today I went and picked up the second one that I am in the process of building and the pistons on this one don't come all the way up to the deck of the block like the first one I had built did, they come up about 3mm short, I am a little worried now about my compression ratio.
So I started looking into why the two block builds would be different and I went to the Jason Grey info on here and found this below, what may have happened is that the first block I built was a late Z22E with the 149.5mm rods, and this block was a Z22S with the 145.9mm rods, so this seems to me to be a problem, or my first block I built doesn't have 8.9 to 1 CR I thought it had, it is likely higher, maybe a lot higher.

Connecting rods 
Center to center length, all use the same 21mm diameter piston wristpin. 
L18, L28, L26--------------130.2mm 
L16, L24---------------------133.0mm 
L13----------------------------139.9mm 
L20B, Z22S, early Z22E-145.9mm* 
Z20S,- ------------------------??** 
Late Z22E-------------------149.5m* 
Z20E--------------------------152.5mm 
Z24, KA24-------------------165.0mm 

Does anyone know what the compression ratio will be on this block with a closed chamber head?

“The difference between genius and stupidly is that genius has its limits” Albert Einstein

 

[datzenmike]

All truck and early Z22E engines in the S110 200sx were the same and had 145.9mm rods (same as the L20B actually) and a piston pin height of 35.56mm. This brings the piston up to 0.05mm below the top of the block. About 0.002" below

 

 

After Jan '82 the rod was lengthened to 149.5mm and the piston pin height shortened to 32.1mm. This combination of longer rod and shorter piston came up to 0.15mm above the block deck . About 0.006" above.

 

 

Now to what you have. I would guess you have later pistons on the early rods. The difference is exactly 3.4mm... about what you have in your picture. Replace the later pistons with early 35.56mm pistons or replace the rods with later 149.5mm length ones.

[wayno]

OK, thankyou DMike, 

So this thing has to come apart again, I believe it will be easier to get the pistons than the rods, so the pistons it will be.

Is there anyway to calculate the CR with basically a 219/V912 head on this combination?

 

EDIT

 

Dmike, we are talking about Z24 pistons here, according to the Jason Grey info there is only one Z24 piston with a 34.0 pin height, so that means I have the wrong rods?

This whole thing worked out so well the first time using a Z22E block/crank/rods with Standard Z24 pistons, this time not so good.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

N85 is the correct casting number on the rods. The other, shorter rods may have U60 cast in them.

 

"Long" rods are 6", the others are 5.85".

[datzenmike]

The 6" N85 rods were used on the Z20E in the S110 200sx and the '80-'81 A10 Z20S engine that used an L20B crank. They are 152.5mm long and won't fit a Z22 crank/block without a 28.95 piston pin height.

 

 

wayno. those are Z24 pistons????  89mm bore????

 

Z24 pistons Z22/L20B rods and Z22 crank = 225.9mm in a 227.45mm tall block. Piston stops 1.55mm below top of block.

 

Z24 pistons late 149.5mm rods, Z22 crank = 229.5mm or 2.05mm ABOVE the top of block. WON'T FIT

 

 

Those pistons are way more than 1.55mm below the deck.

 

 

You sure Z24 pistons and not Z22??

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I guess I got confused. I assumed Wayno was building a long rod 2300. In which case, the only piston that fits is a custom one.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

...and I was wrong on the L20B rod length. They are 145.9mm or 5.74 inches. Did you accidentally use L20B rods Wayno? Casting number U60?

[wayno]

Yes I used a Z22S block this time with Z24 pistons, the rods have the U60 casting number(145.9mm), last time I used a late Z22E block which I assume now had the longer rods(149.5mm) which worked out great, now I have to source a set of longer rods somewhere and buy another set of standard Z24 pistons(89mm).

I was kinda hoping to buy over sized Z22S pistons(89mm) with the 35.5mm pin height, but when I mentioned that the machinist looked at me weird and said that wasn't likely an option, then I looked at the Z24 piston with the 34.0mm pin height and realized that would likely not work anyway, I need the longer rods.

I just tried Engine Re-builders Supply and they said that they didn't have the D81 casting, they didn't say that casting was the longer rod, but it was the only other casting number for that block, at least that is what they said.

I believe that the crank on the L20b/Z22S/Z22E are all the same according to the Jason Grey info, so that isn't likely the issue.

I also have a Z20 longrod block in the shed(152.5mm), but them rods will not work with the Z24 piston either, the pistons would be sticking out the top of the deck too much, I need the longer 149.5mm rods.

I am building another LZ23, it worked out fine last time with the Z22E block.

...and I was wrong on the L20B rod length. They are 145.9mm or 5.74 inches. Did you accidentally use L20B rods Wayno? Casting number U60?

[TFM1066]

Your using a L-20b crank and rods, L-20b  and z-22 cranks are different strokes.

 

The only piston that make a true 2.3 is a custom one.

 

[wayno]

I have no idea how this happened as I usually double check everything, I thought that I had the crank in the proper position but I guess I didn't, I actually pulled one of the pistons/rods to get the casting number off of it, I looked down at the other piston a little later and it looked correct, this baffled me, I looked at the crank again, it looked correct like when I looked at it earlier, but it must not have been correct because now it looks like it should.





I screwed this up somehow, not a mistake I make very often, especially when the piston was so far down in the cylinder, that was the first thing I looked at, well this block is ready to go.

[datzenmike]

Good. Glad to hear this.

[wayno]

No one is happier than me, I can hardly believe I made a mistake like that, I turned that crank to TDC, at least I thought I did.

[datzenmike]

Hey, it was the cheapest of fixes!!!

[scooter]

Dont forget to drill your holes in the deck of the block for cooling on the spark plug side :)

 

I had custom 35.5mm pin height pistons made and they poked out 12-15 thou.. With a 50 thou head gasket thats a lil tight but lots of squeeze.

The block only had a light surface which i would say counts for about 5 thousanths of the protrusion.

 

This is with a z22 crank z22s block and l20b/z22s rods.

 

 

[wayno]

I know I have to drill the holes, this is my second LZ23, I hate making head gaskets for this, it's a pain in the.......................derriere. :lol:

ARP head stud kit is supposed to be here Sept. 2nd, I will be picking up the complete engine gasket kit and timing chain kit this evening, it's in, I just have to go get it.

I have a super head already made, with it just the way it is, I should have an 8.9 to 1 CR, that is high enough for me.

The shop didn't really clean my block, except maybe with a pressure washer, it don't look hot tanked like yours does in the photo above.

[scooter]

I hot tanked mine and surfaced it. And everything got wire wheeled. It also got jetwashed for a while too. That block had about 2 inches of hard caked mud on it when I got it, and the cylinders were soo rusty I had to break the old stock z22 pistons to get them out.

 

But the crankcase was clean and it had the head on it still.

 

I used just the plain composite z24 head gasket, man that thing sucked to make the holes in, that corrugated metal stuff is shit!!!!

 

But on the good side, even with high compression and nitrous, I havint had any head gasket problems. It does have head studs though.

 

My block was straight, but when I surfaced it, it did have high and low spots. I think I cut 10 thou off the deck.. I can't remember.

 

A couple of my mains were a little big too, so it received a line hone.

[wayno]

I have drilled the block and painted it, I am waiting on the ARP head stud kit, it supposed to be here tomorrow.

I noticed that there are 4 holes in the block that the head don't have on the driverside between 1&2 and between 3&4 cylinders head bolts, the L block head gasket has the holes, I am wondering if the U67 head has these holes in the head because that intake manifold doesn't have coolant holes, while my W53, 219, and W58 heads does have holes for the intake manifold but don't have the holes in the head.

 

 

[wayno]

So which high volume oil pump do I want for this build?

[shacks510]

So which high volume oil pump do I want for this build?

KA24E 15010-S8000

[scooter]

You could also use a melling m111. Thats the ka24/turbo 280zx pump in the cast iron flavour.