Jump to content

B-210 Front Disc Brake Questions


jboulukos

Recommended Posts

I'm in the process of overhauling the front brakes with calipers, pads and rotors.  I started to remove the pads and attempted removal of the caliper mounting bolts (17mm socket) however they did not budge.  I also noticed the original metal nut, on brake line from passenger caliper to brake hose, to be completely striped.  This certainly halted my progress.

 

So here are my questions:

 

1. passenger metal brake line: How can i remove it if it is striped? (get someone to torch it off?)  Can I replace it with a small rubber brake line from rockauto, or is it important that it is metal (possibly due to the brake fluid temp rising during use?)?  Should I try to obtain an original from a parts car?

 

2. caliper mounting bolts: How can I get them to budge?  I used PB Blaster spray and a long torque wrench.  I was thinking of driving the car up on the ramps in order to try to get some leverage from underneath.  Any thoughts?

 

3. caliper pin spring:  There is a spring around the caliper pin that lays between the pads.  The spring is long and it is difficult to pinch it into place.  Is there a tool or a trick to this?

 

Stripped and dented passenger from brake line

IMG_6264.jpg

 

spring between the lower caliper pin

IMG_6258.jpg

Link to comment
  • Replies 27
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Heat with a small torch to about 250 degrees, and spray it with your favorite penatrant.

I prefer Liquid Wrench, but PB works also.

Let it cool, and repeat.

The heating & cooling will draw the penatrant into the threads.

 

Then do what you have to do to break it lose.

Like Draker says, vise grips should do it, as long as the teeth are not worn off.

  • Like 1
Link to comment

1/2" ratchet and one good whack with a hammer for the caliper bolt.You sure your'e loosening ? looking at it from the outside you need to turn clockwise to loosen.That brake line nut,get a 10mm flare nut wrench.You might be able to save it if you get it loose.

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Put vise grips on that thing, and break it loose. I had to do that on a few if mine. If you are careful, you can reuse them. Otherwise, chop it off and re-flair it.

 

Heat with a small torch to about 250 degrees, and spray it with your favorite penatrant.

I prefer Liquid Wrench, but PB works also.

Let it cool, and repeat.

The heating & cooling will draw the penatrant into the threads.

 

Then do what you have to do to break it lose.

Like Draker says, vise grips should do it, as long as the teeth are not worn off.

 

1/2" ratchet and one good whack with a hammer for the caliper bolt.You sure your'e loosening ? looking at it from the outside you need to turn clockwise to loosen.That brake line nut,get a 10mm flare nut wrench.You might be able to save it if you get it loose.

 

Big vice-gripes and then reflate with new line for sure. Spray the caliper bolt with good penetrating oil, leave for a day or so and then wack it off!!! -Literally!

 

Thanks for the info.  I have ordered a flare nut wrench and will definitely use that on the drivers side brake line.  

 

For the caliper mounting nuts, I will spray the PB blaster and leave it on for a day or so.  I don't have a torch though but I'll try to whack it with a hammer.  

 

A few more questions:

 

What size brake line is on the 1978 B210? (3/16?)  If I cut off the striped fitting, wouldn't I need to extend the brake line an inch or two for it to be back to normal length?  Is it easier to go to NAPA and purchase a pre-made brake line with fittings on both sides?  After finding the 10mm brake line nut stripped, I use some plyers to try to loosen it.  In the process, I put a small crease in the brake line adjacent to the nut, however no brake fluid is leaking.    

 

Also, and after the caliper is removed, can you explain how to remove the wheel hub in order to get the rotor off?

 

Thanks for the help.  

Link to comment

Put vise grips on that thing, and break it loose. I had to do that on a few if mine. If you are careful, you can reuse them. Otherwise, chop it off and re-flair it.

 

To re-flare the chopped off end... I need a flare tool?  and the new fitting?

 

Can I plug the passenger brake line hose with something for a couple hours while I make this repair?  

 

Do I need to remove the spindle nut to remove the wheel hub? 

Link to comment

Vice-grips to remove. That the threaded line into NAPA or (w/e) and get another similar length or longer and bend it yourself. Use a can of peas or base ball bat to bend it over or again (w/e) works. 

 

Raise the front end so you can bear down on the caliper mount bolts. They are super hardened so you aren't going to break them (pun intended) They'll come loose if you can pull on them.

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Vice-grips to remove. That the threaded line into NAPA or (w/e) and get another similar length or longer and bend it yourself. Use a can of peas or base ball bat to bend it over or again (w/e) works. 

 

Raise the front end so you can bear down on the caliper mount bolts. They are super hardened so you aren't going to break them (pun intended) They'll come loose if you can pull on them.

 

So in order to remove the rotor, the wheel hub needs to be pulled off as well.  Do I need to take off the small hub cap, and cotter pin and loosen the wheel bearing lock nut?

 

Also, while I have the brake line off, what can I do to block the brake line to prevent fluid loss?

Link to comment

Yes the hub must come off to get at the back side of the rotor. The rotor mounting bolts are on that side.

 

Probably a good time to pop out the old grease seal on the very back side for the hub and drop the inside bearing out as well as the outer one. Clean and insect them both, pack the bearings with new wheel bearing grease then replace the grease in the hub. If the grease looks like melted chocolate or muddy looking it's contaminated with water. Tap NEW grease seals in and lube them also with grease so they don't start turning dry..

 

Just catch the brake fluid in a container so it does not make a mess. Keep the reservoir caps on to help prevent it siphoning. You are going to bleed the brakes anyway so that fluid will get pumped out and replaced.

 

 

When you have everything assembled tighten the wheel nut to 18-22 ft lbs. Rotate the wheel several turns in each direction to settle the bearings. Re-tighten the wheel nut to 18-22 ft lbs. Loosen spindle nut 60 degrees. (this is easier than you think. Each face or edge on a hexagonal nut is 60 degrees part. Just turn to the next face) Install the adjusting cap and tighten up to 15 degrees or until grooves are aligned with holes in spindle. Install (new) cotter pin. This is the procedure for the 710 which uses the exact same bearing as the B-210. In fact it should be the same for the 610/A10/S10/Z/ZX and probably all Datsun cars.

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Yes the hub must come off to get at the back side of the rotor. The rotor mounting bolts are on that side.

 

Probably a good time to pop out the old grease seal on the very back side for the hub and drop the inside bearing out as well as the outer one. Clean and insect them both, pack the bearings with new wheel bearing grease then replace the grease in the hub. If the grease looks like melted chocolate or muddy looking it's contaminated with water. Tap NEW grease seals in and lube them also with grease so they don't start turning dry..

 

Just catch the brake fluid in a container so it does not make a mess. Keep the reservoir caps on to help prevent it siphoning. You are going to bleed the brakes anyway so that fluid will get pumped out and replaced.

 

 

When you have everything assembled tighten the wheel nut to 18-22 ft lbs. Rotate the wheel several turns in each direction to settle the bearings. Re-tighten the wheel nut to 18-22 ft lbs. Loosen spindle nut 60 degrees. (this is easier than you think. Each face or edge on a hexagonal nut is 60 degrees part. Just turn to the next face) Install the adjusting cap and tighten up to 15 degrees or until grooves are aligned with holes in spindle. Install (new) cotter pin. This is the procedure for the 710 which uses the exact same bearing as the B-210. In fact it should be the same for the 610/A10/S10/Z/ZX and probably all Datsun cars.

 

great explanation and more questions:

 

1. What size hexagonal socket do I need? 27mm?  Is this for the spindle nut?

 

2. Where do you purchase that large a size socket?  

 

3. What should normal wheel bearings look like upon inspection?  Should I just replace them if they aren't costly?

 

4. How do you "pack" a bearing with grease?  "How much grease is needed for both front wheels?

 

5. What are "grease seats?"  Is that the only name for them?  Can they be ordered on RockAuto?

 

 

Thanks for specifics.  None of these questions are dumb since I've never done this before.  I don't want to fub anything up.

John

Link to comment

1/  sounds close. Pretty sure it's over an inch 1 1/16 (but metric) I have a 27mm socket so likely I used that. If larger I have a 1 1/8" and that would work for only 22 ft lbs.

 

2/  Take the nut in with you for a proper fit. Any auto supply will have them. Pawn shops are cheap for use once tools like that.

 

3/  When cleaned and degreased they should turn smoothly by hand and be blemish free. Look inside the hub where the press in outer race is. This is the surface the roller bearings ride against. Again blemish free and smooth. If even slightly pitted or marred you will hear a growling sound when driving possibly on turns. The outer races are easily driven out of the hub with a drift and a hammer and new ones with the new bearing put in the same way. I wouldn't replace what ain't broken. The grease seals are about $5 each and if you want the inner bearing out the old seal has to come out. I highly recommend this.  Once everything is checked and the grease replaced you are good for the life of the car.

 

4/ To 'pack a bearing' you place a blob of clean grease in your palm and press the bearing into it in a scooping motion. Turn the bearing and force grease in between all the rollers. It's messy but fast and it works. Be sure to fill the cavity inside the hub as well. IF a bearing should overheat... very unlikely... the grease will melt and run down into the bearings. It's very fool proof.

 

5/ Grease seals. They seal out water and dirt and keep the grease in where the hub meets the back of the strut on the spindle. They are turning with the hub but also ride against the non moving spindle. As mentioned they have to be pried out to get the inner bearing out. Only makes sense to replace them with new ones. A block of wood and a hammer is all you need to put the new ones in.

 

You never know what condition your front bearings are in. Water or dirt may have contaminated them and better to fix this now that burn up a spindle.

  • Like 1
Link to comment

1/  sounds close. Pretty sure it's over an inch 1 1/16 (but metric) I have a 27mm socket so likely I used that. If larger I have a 1 1/8" and that would work for only 22 ft lbs.

 

2/  Take the nut in with you for a proper fit. Any auto supply will have them. Pawn shops are cheap for use once tools like that.

 

3/  When cleaned and degreased they should turn smoothly by hand and be blemish free. Look inside the hub where the press in outer race is. This is the surface the roller bearings ride against. Again blemish free and smooth. If even slightly pitted or marred you will hear a growling sound when driving possibly on turns. The outer races are easily driven out of the hub with a drift and a hammer and new ones with the new bearing put in the same way. I wouldn't replace what ain't broken. The grease seals are about $5 each and if you want the inner bearing out the old seal has to come out. I highly recommend this.  Once everything is checked and the grease replaced you are good for the life of the car.

 

4/ To 'pack a bearing' you place a blob of clean grease in your palm and press the bearing into it in a scooping motion. Turn the bearing and force grease in between all the rollers. It's messy but fast and it works. Be sure to fill the cavity inside the hub as well. IF a bearing should overheat... very unlikely... the grease will melt and run down into the bearings. It's very fool proof.

 

5/ Grease seals. They seal out water and dirt and keep the grease in where the hub meets the back of the strut on the spindle. They are turning with the hub but also ride against the non moving spindle. As mentioned they have to be pried out to get the inner bearing out. Only makes sense to replace them with new ones. A block of wood and a hammer is all you need to put the new ones in.

 

You never know what condition your front bearings are in. Water or dirt may have contaminated them and better to fix this now that burn up a spindle.

 

Today I pulled the car onto the ramps and tried to loosen the caliper mounting bolts after spraying them again with PB blaster.  They wouldn't budge.  I may just take them to a mechanic to have them loosened but I think it will be hard to find someone willing to do it here.  

I examined the grease in the hub.  Definitely looks chocolatey! (see images below) Spindle nuts sold on RockAuto for 1978 B210 are 27mm and that is how I came up with the size.  I'm liking the drum brake overhaul much better than the disc brake overhaul so far.  Here I thought the front discs would be simple and fast.  

 

IMG_6280.jpg

 

IMG_6281.jpg

Link to comment

Did you try getting your wrench/socket set up so you can use your foot to push on it? My legs are much stronger than my arms

 

Oh the "Thai massage" technique?  First off, the socket requires an extension.  Then the steering linkage gets in the way when using a long lever arm/torque wrench/breaker bar.  One could press it with a foot however with the extension, the wrench requires being held directly perpendicular or it will just angle off (socket to extension to wrench has many pivot points).  Great suggestion though.  I'm definitely going to give it a few more tries.  The calipers have been on since 2009. 

Link to comment

do you have a friend or neighbor with air tools? Had a hard time taking one caliper off, used box wrench and a hammer. Yep, never easy or we think it's a one hour job that becomes 5 hours.  Just 2 days ago, I replaced the front bearings on 510, well the rotor was showing some serious wear, had to replaced that, then the piston in the caliper is leaking so in process of doing that, waiting for rebuild kit, then one of my hoses is showing wear, might as well change them too.  Our cars or trucks are over 45 years old and will need some TLC.

  • Like 1
Link to comment

do you have a friend or neighbor with air tools? Had a hard time taking one caliper off, used box wrench and a hammer. Yep, never easy or we think it's a one hour job that becomes 5 hours.  Just 2 days ago, I replaced the front bearings on 510, well the rotor was showing some serious wear, had to replaced that, then the piston in the caliper is leaking so in process of doing that, waiting for rebuild kit, then one of my hoses is showing wear, might as well change them too.  Our cars or trucks are over 45 years old and will need some TLC.

 

would an air tool zip it right off?  I don't really know anyone with air powered tools.

Link to comment

They are only 17mm but fine thread. Tightening torque is 50-75 ft lbs on a 710 so probably similar on a B. Bolts tend to 'seize' on but with a ratchet and 18" of pipe on the handle I got mine off with some effort.  The trick is to get the vehicle high enough so the ratchet hangs down and you can place yourself in a position to bear down on it. It's easy to exert 100 pounds but not at arms reach. You can also kick the handle with the flat of your foot to snap it loose. Make damn sure the car can't be moved by this.

  • Like 1
Link to comment

A few more questions:

 

1. Are there rear wheel bearings? Are they same as the fronts?

2. I've watched a couple videos and the spindle nut is usually not on tight or is easily loosened with plyers.  Do I really need to get a spindle socket?  If so, is it a regular looking 27mm socket or is it a special shape for the spindle nut? 

3. Are the grease seals only for the inner side?

Link to comment

1/  Yes there are rear wheel bearings, no they are not at all the same. They are in the axle ends below and slightly behind the rear drum backing plates.

 

2/  I have just tightened them with vice grips, spin the wheel and tighten again, just nice and firm, you don't need to force it. The idea is to remove ALL bearing clearance. Then turn 60 degrees towards loosen. This adds just the right amount of clearance. Channel lock pliers will work also or any 27mm socket. I only mention the 18-33 ft. lbs. because this is in the manual.

 

3/  The grease seals are only the ones on the back side of the rotor. If you look on that small cup that has to be pried off that covers the nut and cotter pin... it has a small rubber seal, or should have. Technically it would be the 'outer' seal. It's there to keep water and dirt out of the bearing grease.

 

Bearing grease.... most are a sort of golden brown and somewhat clear like your pictures. When water is mixed with it, it looks like milk chocolate. Yours is probably fine. Many bearing greases today are colored so that it's more noticeable when a contaminate gets in. My bearing grease is a pale jade green. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment

1/2" ratchet and one good whack with a hammer for the caliper bolt.You sure your'e loosening ? looking at it from the outside you need to turn clockwise to loosen.That brake line nut,get a 10mm flare nut wrench.You might be able to save it if you get it loose.

Today the driver's side brake line nut started stripping out with me using the 10 mm flare nut wrench (and slow sustained force to try to break it) so I loosened it with a vice grip and then continued with the flare nut wrench.  Thanks.  I bet the original stripped one on the passenger side can be salvaged.  Vice grip loosen it and then vice grip tighten it.  Right on.

 

I also got the caliper mounting bolts to loosen.  I think waiting 3 days after spraying PB blaster made all the difference.  

Link to comment

1/  Yes there are rear wheel bearings, no they are not at all the same. They are in the axle ends below and slightly behind the rear drum backing plates.

 

2/  I have just tightened them with vice grips, spin the wheel and tighten again, just nice and firm, you don't need to force it. The idea is to remove ALL bearing clearance. Then turn 60 degrees towards loosen. This adds just the right amount of clearance. Channel lock pliers will work also or any 27mm socket. I only mention the 18-33 ft. lbs. because this is in the manual.

 

3/  The grease seals are only the ones on the back side of the rotor. If you look on that small cup that has to be pried off that covers the nut and cotter pin... it has a small rubber seal, or should have. Technically it would be the 'outer' seal. It's there to keep water and dirt out of the bearing grease.

 

Bearing grease.... most are a sort of golden brown and somewhat clear like your pictures. When water is mixed with it, it looks like milk chocolate. Yours is probably fine. Many bearing greases today are colored so that it's more noticeable when a contaminate gets in. My bearing grease is a pale jade green. 

 

Alright,  I completed the driver's side front brake.  New caliper, new rotor, new pads and new hardware.   

Also cleaned the hub and bearings, repacked the bearings, lightly greased the spindle and inner hub and added a new inner grease seal.  Repacking went well,  The new grease I purchased looked like the color of peanut butter (definitely not as cool as the jade green)

The caliper bolts were loosened with a 10-12 inch long socket wrench, no room for the long lever torqure wrench.  I think the PB blaster was the trick...leaving it settle in there for 3 days.

I cleaned the original Tokico yoke and put the new rebuilt caliper on. 

Then bled the brake letting all the air out from the new caliper.  The brake line nut started stripping while using my 10mm flare wrench so I loosened with a vice grip and then continued with the flare wrench.  

Got in the car, pumped the brake a few times.

 

A few more finishing questions:

 

1. Copper washers (2) came with both rebuilt calipers.  Are these washers used on this type of caliper?  Seems like the brake line screws right into the caliper without any washers needed.

 

2. Should the inner wheel bearing seal be attached to the bearing itself? or does the inner wheel bearing end up butting up against the seal once the spindle nut is fastened?

 

3. Some videos on youtube recommend putting threadlocker onto the caliper bolts before torquing.  Would you recommend this?

 

4. After the cotter pin, there is a wavy metal cover over the spindle nut.  Should this cover be on tight when the cotter pin is in?  Is it the cotter pin that holds the cover tight or should this cover be pinched or twisted some way prior to the cotter pin insertion?

 

5. The order of the outer hub parts goes as follows: outer wheel bearing with smaller/tapered side in first, washer, spindle nut, curvy spindle cover, cotter pin, dust cap.  Correct?

 

6. After replacing everything and just before putting the wheel back on, I spun the hub and the pads were rubbing/touching the rotor.  Then after putting on the wheel and lug nuts, it spun freely.  Is this normal?

Link to comment

Alright,  I completed the driver's side front brake.  New caliper, new rotor, new pads and new hardware.   

Also cleaned the hub and bearings, repacked the bearings, lightly greased the spindle and inner hub and added a new inner grease seal.  Repacking went well,  The new grease I purchased looked like the color of peanut butter (definitely not as cool as the jade green)

The caliper bolts were loosened with a 10-12 inch long socket wrench, no room for the long lever torqure wrench.  I think the PB blaster was the trick...leaving it settle in there for 3 days.

I cleaned the original Tokico yoke and put the new rebuilt caliper on. 

Then bled the brake letting all the air out from the new caliper.  The brake line nut started stripping while using my 10mm flare wrench so I loosened with a vice grip and then continued with the flare wrench.  

Got in the car, pumped the brake a few times.

 

A few more finishing questions:

 

1. Copper washers (2) came with both rebuilt calipers.  Are these washers used on this type of caliper?  Seems like the brake line screws right into the caliper without any washers needed.

 

2. Should the inner wheel bearing seal be attached to the bearing itself? or does the inner wheel bearing end up butting up against the seal once the spindle nut is fastened?

 

3. Some videos on youtube recommend putting threadlocker onto the caliper bolts before torquing.  Would you recommend this?

 

4. After the cotter pin, there is a wavy metal cover over the spindle nut.  Should this cover be on tight when the cotter pin is in?  Is it the cotter pin that holds the cover tight or should this cover be pinched or twisted some way prior to the cotter pin insertion?

 

5. The order of the outer hub parts goes as follows: outer wheel bearing with smaller/tapered side in first, washer, spindle nut, curvy spindle cover, cotter pin, dust cap.  Correct?

 

6. After replacing everything and just before putting the wheel back on, I spun the hub and the pads were rubbing/touching the rotor.  Then after putting on the wheel and lug nuts, it spun freely.  Is this normal?

 

1/ I agree, I don't see where these are needed.

 

2/ The inner grease seal is pressed into the hub. Be sure the bearing is in there first then press the seal into place.

 

3/ No. Proper torque is enough to hold the calipers on. Nissan didn't use it when they made the B-210. Thread locker was invented to sell to insecure home mechanics who don't trust their own work. Tighten them on properly and you'll be fine.

 

4/ The 'wavy metal cover' goes on before the cotter pin goes in. It's a loose fit.

 

5/ Yes.

 

6/ The piston was fully retracted into the caliper so that the pads had room to fit on the rotor. Make sure you pump the brakes several times before driving to move the piston fully against the pads and the pads fully against the rotor. Yes, properly set up you can easily spin the wheel by hand even with the pads lightly against the rotor.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.