Melted spark plugs

[banzai510(hainz)]

told ya

Just run the 4speed. done

[pwrcat4000]

Banzai510,
Yes you were right. :)
Plus I really don't like the feel of the 5-speed. I have to shift the whole lot more in town.

I think the 4 Speed is better for my applications.
I just wanted a Highway gear.

It does have a Rising Sun on though, so I should have called good. :)

[datzenmike]

You didn't?

 

I think Keith means you didn't solve your fill plug problem... you haven't. You've only solved re filling it for now. When that trans comes out is the time to get that bung out. If chewed up get another. BTW differential drain and fill bungs will also work if you find one.

 

The dogleg is an alright 5 speed and ... suitable, for a light car and up to an L20B engine size. They only came in the S10 car (made for 3 years) and an option in some A10 cars (for a year and a half?) so there aren't a lot about. It's popular in the 510 because it's an easy swap and the stock L16 engine isn't going to stress it much. Doglegs are now at least 35 years old, well used and have probably been traded in and out of several vehicles before you got it. Face it... what better reason for selling it than it was getting loud?

 

A much better choice would be a 71B 5 speed as these were built to handle a six cylinder, have a variety of internal ratios and over drives. They came in the '77 and up 280z, 280zx, 620 and 720 trucks in L series trim. Very common and by swapping the front 'L case' you can use an '80 and up S110, S12 and the later Z series transmissions in the 720. In fact the 720 also had a 26" 5 speed same length as your 521 4 speed. It just needs a front case swap.

[banzai510(hainz)]

this is just me.

510s are alot ezer to swap things around.

My 521 the trans came down then the top bolt got x threaded. Learn I could have fot it from the top if cover was removed to get at it.

 

4 speed a

you can shift into gear with out using the clutch if you do it just right.

Dont get me wrong when the trans goes out be ready with the 5 speed. I did this with my 510 last time it was done thern I had the x member and everything ready to go and was done.

[flatcat19]

No, no, no.

 

I was making g a double negative.

 

 

 

You didn't not graduate from preschool?

 

 

 

Buy new bearings for the dogleg and get it done.

I will be doing this dame thing as I swap an L 63A housing on to a Z 63A transmission.

[pwrcat4000]

I am planning on just pulling the whole motor and trans again. Then attaching the 4 speed and putting it back in. it just seems easier since I am working by myself.
I will  get the fill bung out of the 4 speed before I put it back in the truck. I Will put some anti seize on it as DatsunMike suggested.

When it is back the truck and I will drain the 4 speed and change the fluid the way it was intended to be done.

 

Temporally I'm going to leave the five-speed in.  I want to tune the l20b a bit. It runs really good now but it stutters a little bit. I will seafoam  the fuel. I have made really old crusty stuff run perfectly again with that stuff, I am sure everyone has their favorite.

I need to look for vacuum leaks, adjust the timing.
The ignition system is all new parts.  I'm getting good spark at every plug. So I see no problems there.

I need to triple check the firing order, I will probably pull the valve cover and check all of the valve adjustments.

I will post if I get bamboozled or can't seem to get it dialed in perfectly.  I wish I would have had this L20B to begin with.

 

I will have to go back and look at other posts. I think it was recommended 11 BTDC on the timing with the vacuum disconnected.

It also has electric choke, it runs way worse with it disconnected even when warm. I will look to see if it is an adjustment or something.

It needs to be permanently wired. It is alligator clipped right now.

I was thinking about wiring it to the power to the windshield washer on the Drivers side loom, it turns on with the key.  I would love to hear what the recommended way to do it is. I can always run a wire from a switched source off of the fuse holder.

[datzenmike]

Doubt the 4 speed bug is the same thread as the 63A dogleg. Looks like just about every plug but the 510/510 will work

 

 

There shouldn't be any vacuum on the vacuum advance while idling, however if the idle or the running such that the idle is above about 750 there may be. Disconnect the hose just to be safe, you don't have to plug it as it doesn't affect intake vacuum.

 

Wire the choke heater to the 'far side' (battery side)of the ballast resister. It's on with the ignition and simpler/easier.

 

 

 

 

I will be doing this dame thing as I swap an L 63A housing on to a Z 63A transmission.

 

Ambitious! The Z series 63A has better gears. By 'better' I mean they have less RPM drop between shifts. 

 

The RPM drop from 1st to 2nd are close at 40.4% for the L and 39.4% for the Z, an advantage but not noticeable, but the 2nd to 3rd is way better at 31.7% for the Z vs. a whopping 34% for the L. Both have he same 25.7% drop into 4th and about 15% into 5th gears. This nicely fills in that big 3rd gear drop in RPMs

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

OK, I am not a fan of Dogleg 5 speeds,

Man, I am glad someone finally said it. I thought I was the only one.

 

Not a very good transmission in my book.

[Lockleaf]

Man, I am glad someone finally said it. I thought I was the only one.

 

Not a very good transmission in my book.

I thought the only advantage to them was that they are the same length as a 4 speed, so no modification required to get 5 speeds. I didn't realize people considered an upgrade for any other reason.

[datzenmike]

The 4 speed in the 510 and the S-10 dogleg 1 through 4 gears are exactly the same ratios and only 5th is added. The F4W63L and the FS5W63A internally have the same distance between main and counter shafts 63mm, so this limits the maximum diameter of the bearings you can fit in them. Still need to mod the trans mount. Sensible only with the stock L16, stretching it a bit with anything larger. Myself, don't care for the shift pattern, some do. Not just a matter of getting used to them. I want first to second quick and straight for in traffic and town driving. Don't need fast 4th to 5th. Only up side to this up grade is an over drive.

 

The 71B are much more roomier inside, with larger stronger gears and bearings, handles a six cylinder (so no sweat for a four) or hauling in a truck, wide, mid or close ration gears and several overdrive choices, much much more common to find and not as worn out. Same trans mount mod but added drive shaft shortening. Now that is an up grade. 

[pwrcat4000]

hey mike all this trans talk got me thinking

My 4 speed will whine a very small amount in first gear if  I downshift it is that a bearing too like the 5 speed? or just load whine?

[datzenmike]

During the down shift is the synchronizer furiously trying to speed up the clutch disc and input shaft to match the main gear so they can mesh without grinding.

 

If in 1st with clutch out ... just the bearings, mostly the counter.

[flatcat19]

Who downshifts into first?

 

 

Someone that didn't graduate from preschool, that's who.

[pwrcat4000]

I told that teachin lady, I don't need me no kindragardun.

 

 

--

Ending a sentence with a preposition is nothing to be afraid of.

[wayno]

Who downshifts into first?

 

 

Someone that didn't graduate from preschool, that's who.

I do Keith, all the time.

[wayno]

Man, I am glad someone finally said it. I thought I was the only one.

 

Not a very good transmission in my book.

I went thru 4 of them damned doglegs in 5 years, I got tried of changing transmissions, it was a pain, they are not made for trucks that haul stuff.

They were why I built my first hybrid 5 speed, the first one that popped out of gear in first all the time under compression lasted me 5 years, the only reason I changed it was because the 2nd gear synchro was shot from slamming 2nd all the time, especially when going up a hill.

[KoHeartsGPA]

told ya

Just run the 4speed. done

I got so used to mine that my 5 spd will continue sitting on my work bench until the day that i need to pull the motor comes :lol:

[flatcat19]

I do Keith, all the time.

Is that what killed your doglegs?

[datzenmike]

All transmissions transmit power, acceleration and deceleration, through the counter shaft with the exception of 4th 'gear' which isn't a gear at all, just a solid connection straight through the transmission from clutch the driveshaft. When there is a load on any gear (except 4th) there is a a side load trying to push the counter shaft away from the mainshaft. This is prevented by large bearings to keep the gears in proper alignment. The largest of these is the front countershaft bearing where power is transmitted directly down from the main to the countershaft at the front. A noisy transmission in all gears but 4th (4th needing little support by bearings as there is almost no side load produced) is almost always the front counter bearing. Not always, but it's the one with the largest load on it.

 

 

Above are the relative sizes of the (lower) counter bearings of a 71B and a dogleg. (right) The dogleg uses a much smaller tapered roller bearing.The 71B uses a 56mm bearing increased to 62mm in '85 models. Bearing size is limited by the distance between the main and counter shafts. In this case, 71mm in the 71B, and 63mm in the FS5W63A dogleg.

[wayno]

Is that what killed your doglegs?

No, 5th gear is what killed almost all my doglegs, it would start howling so loud that it was hard to ignore.

But the last L series dogleg I owned locked up, I had to have the clutch pushed in just to keep the engine running, but it could be pushed anywhere, the wheels were not locked up, just the input shaft on the dogleg was locked/seized.

I have never had a Nissan/Datsun transmission issue downshifting, I ruin the synchro in 2nd gear from slamming it into 2nd on the work truck, and eventually I go thru/ruin the front cluster gear bearing, it seems to be the weak spot on these 71B type transmissions.

[scooter]

Someone should weigh a dogleg, then a 71b and a d21 71c. I bet the 71c is over 50 pounds heavier than the dogleg.. Taking the dogleg in and out of my 200sx was a breeze compared to that brute 71c.. Could barely wrestle that thing in there while laying under the car..

 

Strong though.. Hasn't shown any weakness even doing 5000rpm nitrous launches with autocross tires and posi...

 

Despite the weight I am very pleased with the 71c swap... that 2-3 drop was ridiculous. With the d21 Trans it doesn't have a crazy overdrive either

[datzenmike]

Just measured my 280zx and it's 86 pounds without oil, with clutch arm and release bearing. Guessing the 63A is over 60 pounds, the 71C just into the 90s.

[flatcat19]

I can toss the doglegs around like a pair of rolled up socks. They're very lightweight.

 

 

Not much heavier than a loaded L cylinder head(55lbs.)

[scooter]

Just measured my 280zx and it's 86 pounds without oil, with clutch arm and release bearing. Guessing the 63A is over 60 pounds, the 71C just into the 90s.

I agree with this.