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411 front disc brake conversion


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#21 Pedro

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 01:01 AM

I think if you used a flat plate for your caliper bracket, somewhere between 10-12mm thick, your life would be a lot easier. The cantilever and those spacers make me nervous.

 

No doubt it could have been done a different way. However the setup is rigid, the caliper brackets I used incorporate curved sections which give it strength even with the sections I have removed.

 

Either way I'll report back when it (if) the car runs and I have tested them.



#22 RJC786

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 09:02 PM

Well, I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread!

I've recently acquired a WP411 project car and one of the first things I wanted to address is the brakes as I've got to put the system back together anyway. Have just started digging around the internet for information before I measure everything up and start sussing out what other OEM parts I might be able to harvest for it.

 

Do you know if there's any truth to 240Z stock front brakes fitting these?



#23 Pedro

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 04:15 PM

Well, I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread!

I've recently acquired a WP411 project car and one of the first things I wanted to address is the brakes as I've got to put the system back together anyway. Have just started digging around the internet for information before I measure everything up and start sussing out what other OEM parts I might be able to harvest for it.

 

Do you know if there's any truth to 240Z stock front brakes fitting these?

 

Cannot confirm the 240z thing, but unless they come with a separate caliper bracket to mount the caliper I can't seem them working on NON SSS 410/411 hub & spindle. A SSS one maybe if they come with a caliper ear, but I haven't seen a SSS 411 spindle yet to compare.



#24 Pedro

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 03:54 AM

Making progress on this conversion & car as a whole, thought I'd chuck an update for completeness.

 

Tack welded the spacers on the brackets using a clamp, then painted

 

310DD22C-D167-4168-B9B6-4447E45DBF9D_zps

 

Got hubs machined to suit the rotors

 

5BE06BDF-BB2E-4237-A1E8-8B4FE407342D_zps

 

Rotors fit perfect now

 

D02EDBCE-96C7-4B6F-8932-D93609DCFF0D_zps

EEE5B88E-F2DB-40E7-97BC-8A7CB40F4C75_zps

 

Will be repacking the bearings then installing everything on the car.

 

The 410 bearings that are installed in the hubs for reference

 

Front of stub - Bearing 30304A (NSK Brand)

Rear of stub axle - Bearing 30206 (NSK Brand).

Hub seal - 40227 08000

 

Does anyone know of a longer wheel stud that can be used on the 410/411? Now that I'm using a slip on rotor, it's slightly thicker than the drum face, so want to make sure I have enough thread on the nuts.

 

Thanks



#25 ]2eDeYe

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 05:56 AM

I used these studs. 

 

Moser Engineering 7/16-20 1.750" 0.480 Knurl Steel Wheel Stud 10 pc P/N 8259
 
Ordered them from amazon :) 

 

IMG_9023_zpsl6ruoaki.jpg


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Whenever I think that I'm out of my mind for putting this much time and money into an old Datsun, all I have to do is look some of your threads to know that I'm not nearly as whack as you are.

You're going to skin a few knuckles, stand up too fast and bump your head, hunt around the floor for the nuts and bolts you dropped, invent a few new cuss words and when you're finished you'll say "That wasn't so hard after all!"


#26 Pedro

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:16 PM

I used these studs. 

 

Moser Engineering 7/16-20 1.750" 0.480 Knurl Steel Wheel Stud 10 pc P/N 8259
 
Ordered them from amazon :)

 

IMG_9023_zpsl6ruoaki.jpg

 

 

 

Wow thanks man! So you fitted yours and all good?

Are they stock length or longer? I'm googling to see if I can find an equivalent in Australia, otherwise I'll see if Amazon ships to AU (without wanting my first born child).



#27 ]2eDeYe

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 02:18 PM

No problem, fit exactly as stock. They are longer than stock though to make up for the rotor thickness, as well as a bit more thread engagement for the wheels I am running. 

 

Edit to add a pic of them installed.

 

IMG_9092_zpsgtoqgejs.jpg


Smokin' Joe's House of Datto's

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**DATSUN FAQ** ~ If ya know it, post it ~ If ya don't know it, learn it ~

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620 KA24 Motor Mount Swap Brackets

1977 620 KingCab Deluxe KA24DE Swap - Refresh and cleanup
1978 620 kingcab 4x4 - KA24E SAS w/Dana 44 front and Toyota rear

1967 RL411 Station Wagon

 

Whenever I think that I'm out of my mind for putting this much time and money into an old Datsun, all I have to do is look some of your threads to know that I'm not nearly as whack as you are.

You're going to skin a few knuckles, stand up too fast and bump your head, hunt around the floor for the nuts and bolts you dropped, invent a few new cuss words and when you're finished you'll say "That wasn't so hard after all!"


#28 Pedro

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 08:44 PM

Dug out all the old grease from the hubs on the weekend and cleaned all the bearings.

 

Did a rush job of painting the hubs

 

F5A513F5-2B18-4F07-8A64-81F8F4FB57D5_zps

ACE3C73E-3D51-449E-A2DE-AA98F7D6D6DD_zps

D5993C32-302A-4489-90EF-5E59A0853947_zps

 

Banged a stud back in and test fitted a rim with the disc on, gets full thread on the nut so all good for studs if the calipers fit (which they probably won't)

 

D9FD1617-0051-4182-9128-6E8191004DE4_zps

F7AAFB72-804A-4C66-BB4B-0D081C8CF0F0_zps

92D59626-1816-4C37-8500-3B05719E8704_zps

 

Next stop is repacking bearings, getting some proper caliper bolts that are the right length, then trial fit it all on the car.



#29 Pedro

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Posted 02 April 2017 - 04:52 PM

Packed some some bearings and trialed a mock up. Had a adjust some of the holes with a file for fitment.

 

59321F46-2EB4-4293-8BA3-A5024B238EDB_zps

E5BA3EDE-59B5-47B3-84E9-A528FED0E131_zps

 

Borrowed a bearing packer (reused bearing seal because ratsun)

 

7F83F281-8EB4-44E9-B622-1A58D8EFB434_zps

F19F4980-DEDC-4C81-BC76-AF2947C33AF6_zps

B2CF23E0-5EB5-410F-8D80-5A3E8719649B_zps

37D9BB40-C396-4B00-A113-A3DD357BE146_zps

 

New rotor installed (at this point I thought I was on a roll) since the rotor didn't touch the suspension.

F7CD5AB4-4597-4C79-BCF3-397DC0CEE54A_zps

 

Went to bolt on caliper and this is where it all went wrong...

 

Wasn't enough room to put the caliper mounting frame behind the rotor....

 

DA455365-6696-41FD-A9ED-35F6617EB97B_zps

 

At this point I'm scratching my head and second guessing my measurements or alignment etc. So I packed it up for the night and gave myself time to think.

 

Going over it the next day, I thought it could only be 2 things;

 

- Sample rotor was in fact not off an R31 skyline.

- I hadn't bolted the hub on properly OR that 410 & 411 hubs were different.

 

Turns out the sample rotor I had used for fitment was off a R30 skyline that I had wrecked years ago, and not a R31 as suspected. Therefore there is about 10-12mm different in hat size;

 

9B2F6083-4ACA-43C5-8DBC-A732CD78D355_zps

 

Soooo....

 

Now I'm left with either modifying the caliper mount spacer to suit the new hat size of the R31 rotor, or buy new R30 rotors. The difference is that R30 are less common and likely to not be made in the future IMO, they also may not give good caliper clearance. R30 rotors are also 3 times the price of an R31 rotor.

 

Another positive of the R30 rotor is suspension clearance may be better due to a shorter hat size.

 

The next step will be to put the R30 rotor on and assemble it and check full suspension bump for clearances, and then do the same with the R31 rotor. My preference is the R31 rotor but it will all be depend on what is the best option overall.



#30 ]2eDeYe

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Posted 02 April 2017 - 05:07 PM

Two steps forward :)


Smokin' Joe's House of Datto's

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**DATSUN FAQ** ~ If ya know it, post it ~ If ya don't know it, learn it ~

ratsun.net rising sun stickers                     ratsun business cards order thread

620 KA24 Motor Mount Swap Brackets

1977 620 KingCab Deluxe KA24DE Swap - Refresh and cleanup
1978 620 kingcab 4x4 - KA24E SAS w/Dana 44 front and Toyota rear

1967 RL411 Station Wagon

 

Whenever I think that I'm out of my mind for putting this much time and money into an old Datsun, all I have to do is look some of your threads to know that I'm not nearly as whack as you are.

You're going to skin a few knuckles, stand up too fast and bump your head, hunt around the floor for the nuts and bolts you dropped, invent a few new cuss words and when you're finished you'll say "That wasn't so hard after all!"


#31 Pedro

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Posted 02 April 2017 - 07:30 PM

Two steps forward :)

 

Something like that!

 

A quick 2nd gear power skid in my fj20 510 renewed the enthusiasm :)



#32 Johnlorio

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 08:14 PM

Actually the 510 calipers are identical to the SSS calipers except they have metric threads so you you have to fab up a brake line with SaE on the car side and metric on the callipervside. The backing plates are slightly different.

#33 Pedro

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 07:27 PM

I did a mock up with the current disc rotor (that I used for mocking up) just to check things out to see if I wanted to consider buying those rotors to save time.

 

1943A548-A6D6-481D-948D-5E8722BBCF40_zps

B53E5D3F-6709-4B6B-A120-6B1151ECACDE_zps

7D5BBCF1-4AC3-4CD8-BBE4-50EF08E1AEF5_zps

 

Clearance wise everything looked ok-ish.

 

Unfortunately the 13 inch widened steelies i had on there didn't fit :( So I drove to my brothers to collect a pair of 13 inch alloys that have been known to work over particular brake conversions while allowing the fitment of a 13 inch hubcap, that was also a fail with these rotors, I'm still hopeful that may change once I use the rotors with the taller hat size.

 

Good to know a 16x7 watanabe fits though ;)

 

5BD755DD-1BD8-420F-9F45-BA78000070FE_zps

 

So takeaways from this last exercise.

 

- I may consider modifying the caliper brackets so I can mount the calipers on the back. This will assist with re-using the existing brake line mount for where the hard line meets the soft line.

- New rotors with the larger hat size will assist with running 13 inch wheels as the caliper was fouling right in the front corner of the 13 inch rims.

 

This weekend I'll get the caliper brackets ready to go fitment wise, then hand the whole setup over to the gentleman who machined the hubs for me so he can machine down the spacers for me.

 

Will update once that process is completed.



#34 ]2eDeYe

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 06:54 AM

Actually the 510 calipers are identical to the SSS calipers except they have metric threads so you you have to fab up a brake line with SaE on the car side and metric on the callipervside. The backing plates are slightly different.

 

You can get a simple adapter and run stock metric lines.

 

http://www.dormanpro...?origin=keyword


Smokin' Joe's House of Datto's

Picture004-5sml.jpg
Member- *Japanese Trucking Association*

**DATSUN FAQ** ~ If ya know it, post it ~ If ya don't know it, learn it ~

ratsun.net rising sun stickers                     ratsun business cards order thread

620 KA24 Motor Mount Swap Brackets

1977 620 KingCab Deluxe KA24DE Swap - Refresh and cleanup
1978 620 kingcab 4x4 - KA24E SAS w/Dana 44 front and Toyota rear

1967 RL411 Station Wagon

 

Whenever I think that I'm out of my mind for putting this much time and money into an old Datsun, all I have to do is look some of your threads to know that I'm not nearly as whack as you are.

You're going to skin a few knuckles, stand up too fast and bump your head, hunt around the floor for the nuts and bolts you dropped, invent a few new cuss words and when you're finished you'll say "That wasn't so hard after all!"


#35 RJC786

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 08:10 AM

Hmm, that's a pity about the calipers -  I too want to run stock hubcaps so need to be careful with the caliper selection when I get around to trying out some parts for fitment. Pondering Volvo calipers as a friend has these on a 67 Prince and they don't seem too bulky.

 

Keep at it - I'm sure it's all worth it in the end.  



#36 MikeRL411

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 04:45 PM

Damn!  Too bad you live so very far from me.  I have 4 Datsun 13x5 inch original wheels from either a 1500cc 310 roadster or the later 310 FWD sedan.  They do not have the "dog dish" clips so need full 13 inch wheel covers [which makes the roadster option more likely] .  They do clear the original RL411 front disc brakes  Shipping costs would likely exceed the value of your 411..



#37 Pedro

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 03:23 PM

It's all good boys! I'm still confident I can make it all work with 13 inch rims, just struggling for time at the moment, but will be back into it soon as this car seriously only needs a small amount of work to complete it.