Questions about 210 dogleg transmission

[Charlie-O]

Hi all. Longtime lurker, first time poster. 

 

Much to my delight I recently acquired a 5-speed 210 transmission, as identified by the 60 cast into the right side. However, it was sold to me sight unseen, and when I got it I was somewhat surprised to find it was a dogleg, as indicated by the rear-facing drain plug.

 

After cleaning it up a bit I have found black RTV between the front and rear cases, which puts me in a bit of a panic, because it would seem someone has been in there before. Yes? 

 

I was also told after I got it that rebuilt kits for the dogleg are becoming impossible to find, because although the bearings are common, the synchros are not. Strange. I can't imagine unique synchros were developed and used just one year...I would think that perhaps they are not so scarce, but you have to know what to ask for? 

 

But the big and most obvious question is, short of opening it up or putting it in a car is there any way to assess its condition? The input shaft turns smoothly but who knows, that would not seem like a real test. If this question is asked and answered frequently, I apologize. 

 

Obviously if it is a pig in a poke I want to try and get my money back, without paying someone to break it down for a rebuild, only to find it requires uncommon parts or, best case scenario--that maybe it already had a rebuild and it is good to go. 

 

Thanks for your help, you guys are great. 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

That's a good score. Great upgrade for an A powered car.

 

First thing you should do is pull the drain plug and look for metal. There may be a film of shiny gunk on it, and that's mostly normal, but look for flakes and chunks.

 

Second, do a bench test. Shift it through the gears and while in each gear, spin the input and output shafts, listening and feeling for roughness. Bad can be detected by this simple test.

 

Third, you can also tell with a bench test if the synchros are working. Turn the input shaft while leaning into the gear and you should feel the synchro bring the gears up to speed. This is a finesse thing and if you've never done it, you may not get it.

 

Lastly, if it all feels good, put it in the car and drive it. It's not that hard of a job to pull it back out if you aren't happy with it. For the first drive, use cheap gear oil. This will act as a flush if everything works out. If it turns out that the trans needs work, then you haven't wasted money on Redline MT90.

 

It's surprising how many times someone asks where to source parts for older Datsuns. Have you tried the Nissan dealer? A lot of those parts are still available.

 

Good luck.

[datzenmike]

The 60L uses 5 synchros part # 32604-H9000 about 40? each. (my price list is 10 years out of date) Far and away the biggest wear item is the poor countershaft bearing, it's only 60mm in diameter. Every gear 1, 2, 3 and 5th uses it. (4th isn't a gear)

[Ranman72]

That's a good score. Great upgrade for an A powered car.

 

First thing you should do is pull the drain plug and look for metal. There may be a film of shiny gunk on it, and that's mostly normal, but look for flakes and chunks.

 

Second, do a bench test. Shift it through the gears and while in each gear, spin the input and output shafts, listening and feeling for roughness. Bad can be detected by this simple test.

 

Third, you can also tell with a bench test if the synchros are working. Turn the input shaft while leaning into the gear and you should feel the synchro bring the gears up to speed. This is a finesse thing and if you've never done it, you may not get it.

 

Lastly, if it all feels good, put it in the car and drive it. It's not that hard of a job to pull it back out if you aren't happy with it. For the first drive, use cheap gear oil. This will act as a flush if everything works out. If it turns out that the trans needs work, then you haven't wasted money on Redline MT90.

 

It's surprising how many times someone asks where to source parts for older Datsuns. Have you tried the Nissan dealer? A lot of those parts are still available.

 

Good luck.

what he said is the best way to check it unless tranny shops can put it on a simulator 

good score the 5 speeds are getting harder to find 

[Charlie-O]

All--thanks for your input. So far so good. No chunks or flakes on the drain plug--although it was probably bumped in every direction when it was shipped, they could have been knocked off. It seems to spin quietly in each gear, other than the sound that gears make when they mesh. 

 

Mr. Motorsports--regarding the synchros leaning into the gears whilst spinning the input shaft, is a pretty cool way to test. What I am getting when I do this is a couple of little clicks, like tumblers falling in the lock when you open a safe, is that what you mean? I can't really "feel" it but I can tell something is moving, and quietly.

 

Datzenmike, thanks for the part numbers. I checked them out via a Google search and yes, they are about $40. NLA from Nissan, and they seem to be sold by only one or two vendors, compared to the later type 60 transmission with the H-shifter, whose rebuild kits can even be had through the big box stores. 

 

But hopefully everything is OK. I had a 210 rebuilt a few years ago, and the synchros and all but one of the bearings a looked like new--except for the front countershaft bearing, a small needle bearing that was quite worn. Maybe it is similar to the ones you are referring to, Mike. Do you have a p/n for that?

 

The idea of putting it on a simulator is a good one--when you mentioned this I recalled that I do have an acquaintance who couples transmissions to a variable speed electric motor using a length of heater hose and some clamps and tests that way. I will ask him when he gets back into town. He is some sort of SCCA official, on the road a lot. 

 

Thanks again everyone.  

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

The clicking you describe could be nothing more than the spring loaded detents inside the gear hub, or... the noise could be ball bearings falling onto themselves indicating missing bearing cages.

 

Sounds like the former though.

 

If sourcing synchros is a problem, you can usually swap them from gear to gear. First and second gear are the gears that see most synchro wear. Swap them around if you have to.

[datzenmike]

Wow, needle bearings, I had no idea. Figured it was ball or roller. #32219-H9700 ... $20?

 

 32136-H5000 ($20) is the rear extension oil seal. I always replace the rear oil seal any time the transmission is out. Be sure to grease or oil it before installing the drive shaft so it doesn't start up dry.