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My latest engine swap


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#21 difrangia

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 02:31 PM

BTW, this is a well thought out and executed installation. Superb work !!


Better to have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy !!


#22 jfbrink

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 04:10 PM

To continue the hijack of my own thread, just before I started the swap, I came up with this engine mount solution, using a set of mounts that a custom mount guy wrecked by fusing 90A+ off-the-shelf rubber pads to the stock 411 metal. I went with this approach because it just seemed way easier than fabricating analogs to these ridiculous shapes myself. I have a lot of latent anger about the complexity of these J13 mounts.

 

I don't know how smooth this simplified result would run but I figured it would be in the neighborhood of good given that the rubber pads are from MGs using essentially the same engine. These MG pads are 55/60A.

 

411_engine_custom_mounts_mg_pads.jpg

 

The two metal plates would get two holes drilled in each for the upper studs of the MG mount and be welded into the upper portions of the stock mount at the positions indicated by the red sharpie lines.

 

Best,

 

Jesse.



#23 MikeRL411

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 04:47 PM

Best of luck!  If it works, let us all know with all too many PIX!  I was lecky enough to get new Nissan engine mounts many moons age when I rebuilt my RL411 engine.  Better safe than sorry really worked out well with that purchase.

 

Words for the ages!  "You are really in trouble when the vehicle you have just turned in for servicing is older than the mechanic assigned to work on it."



#24 fisch

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 07:10 PM

hi there, having had the pleasure of owning an 89 Suzuki swift GTi for a number of years, I am curious if you thought about running the FWD g13B twincam head on the Sammi block?. That little engine would sing. Yamaha design as I understood it. I thought about it for my 1959 datsun 1000, and recall the distributor location made it a little long. But there are other ways to get spark. I dont know how tough it would be in actuality,, but i would dream about it.



#25 jfbrink

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 08:16 AM

The beauty of the G13BB engine is that it is distributorless coil-on-plug. The distributor on the G13A (Samurai) and G13B (twincam) does stick out for miles, and I figured why come up with my own ignition system when I can go stock with the G13BB. I do love those Swift GTi engines, though, and this little Datsun would really scoot with that extra 30ish HP.

 

By the way, all the G13 engines bolt right up to the RWD Samurai transmission with no fuss.

 

Best,

 

Jesse.



#26 fisch

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 10:51 AM

The beauty of the G13BB engine is that it is distributorless coil-on-plug. The distributor on the G13A (Samurai) and G13B (twincam) does stick out for miles, and I figured why come up with my own ignition system when I can go stock with the G13BB. I do love those Swift GTi engines, though, and this little Datsun would really scoot with that extra 30ish HP.

 

By the way, all the G13 engines bolt right up to the RWD Samurai transmission with no fuss.

 

Best,

 

Jesse.

Gotcha, would the G13b twincam head bolt to your block? I think it would with the g13A, but don't know about the BB. If you could it would be a fun next evolution for your car, if you can sort the ignition. That engine really would sing! I almost pulled it, and the seats for a future Datsun build, but sold it to a Swift fanatic. I miss everything about that car except the FWD.



#27 raceneely

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 06:51 AM

This is high level and acceptable sin in the motor swap dept. Thats a real commuter car now

#28 jfbrink

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 02:40 PM

@raceneelly - Yes, exactly. It is my daily driver, now. I have put hundreds of city/highway miles on it in the two months that it's been back on the road.



#29 MikeRL411

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 09:28 PM

Bottom line!  Don't scrap your 410 or 411 just because you can't find J or R engine parts!  Be creative and read this posting!  I personally prefer to keep my RL411 in original configuration, but I realize that not every owner has the luxury of a dealer original car.  Keep them on the road!  We need more 410s and 411s on the road!  Just to prove that the 510s were not the "original" Datsuns.  [Or the original Super Sport Sedans!]



#30 difrangia

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 03:41 AM

Who, in their right mind, would want to drive a late model computer on four wheels, when this is an option?

 

Again, many thanks for showing us  your 'Think Outside the Box' visions and skills.


Better to have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy !!


#31 difrangia

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 03:46 AM

jfbrink, Do you have plans to do the body paint to match the engineroom blue? How about a couple of pics of the outside-interior??


Better to have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy !!


#32 vindats1

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 08:51 PM

I have a set of good condition used E1 motor mounts for what it's worth... Sorry for the threadjack jfbrink!

I think the E 1 motor mounts are different than the R 16 motors mounts for the 411's.  


Tana, the Datsun lady

#33 MikeRL411

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 05:31 PM

I think the E 1 motor mounts are different than the R 16 motors mounts for the 411's.  

 

And the RL 411 passenger side and driver side engine mounts are different!



#34 vindats1

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 10:05 PM

Yep, Datsun company did not want to make it easy for us.


Tana, the Datsun lady

#35 spdcrazy

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 09:36 PM

as much as I love reading pages after pages of peoples build. I loved clicking on this thread and BAM there is a sweet well thought out and clean engine swap.

 

well done!



#36 Beef Weasel

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 08:28 AM

For mount rubber I like to use semi mudflaps. Pretty soft but very durable.

#37 Pedro

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:21 PM

@SwedishCadillac, et al. - I'm sorry, I replied about the V6 weeks ago, but I must have never clicked "Post". I'm using a 1.8L Mazda K8 V-6, the little brother to the more famous KL-DE 2.5L V-6. It was an upgrade option in Mazda MX-3s. I'm building a custom intake (really just an aluminum box) and running it with a MegaSquirt ECU from Stratified. For transmission, I'm going with a JATCO 4N71B four-speed A/T, sourced from a second gen RX-7, to give me a rear-facing starter. I've designed a 1/2" adapter plate to join the engine and transmission. I was going to use a Miata 5-speed, but my vision for this build became making the wagon a cruiser. I will probably even put A/C in it, if I can fit a Vintage Air mini unit up in that tiny dash space (I think I can). Here is the engine sitting in my mock-up car:

 

411_swap_k8_fitment_1.jpg

 

@difrangia, et al. - On the topic of motor mounts, I've cast a few of my own, and I've had "professionals" cast them for me, and the durometer (hardness) is a real issue. The stock ones appear to have been about 50/55A and I've found the 411 is very sensitive to anything harder than that. By "sensitive" I mean it's a crappy, vibrating, rattling mess at all RPM with harder mounts.

Hey Man just found this, what is the latest on this v6 project?



#38 jfbrink

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 12:13 PM

@Pedro - I've been creeping forward while primarily occupied by other things. The current plan is to take the Mazda K8 V6, mate it with a Mazda RX-7 transmission via a 3/8" plate and install it in my 411 wagon. I have two RX-7 transmissions: a 5-speed and an automatic. Both work for this swap because the starter comes in from the back, so I don't have to worry about clearance with the V-6 block. Other manual and automatic transmissions that I found that would work with this engine were way, way too bulky for our little cars.

 

In stock form, the air inlet for the intake manifold would sit under the dash. I figured out that with slight modification the intake would work rotated 180*. But, then this little squiggly tube of the VRIS get all fouled up with things. Also, as much as I like the idea of VRIS, I think this thing is ugly as sin, I do not think that it works visually with the style of the car and I don't like how it hides the V6-ness:

 

411_swap_k8_intake_stock_3.jpg

 

I was planning to weld up my own intake, but it seemed like such an amount of effort and time that I kept putting it off. At junkyards, I would look for other V6 intakes. Most I couldn't get around the looks. But, then I came across these Alfa Romeo intakes, which are tidy, compact and feel a little retro:

 

411_swap_k8_intake_alfa_straight.jpg

411_swap_k8_intake_alfa_flat.jpg

 

I'm focusing on the second one at the moment, because designing / routing the runner tubes proved to be much easier. I'm moving forward with the idea of printing these tubes on a 3D printer with the water-soluble "support" type filament and using them as cores that I will wrap with fiber and resin. The big block in the drawing is massing clearance for the injectors and rails. I'm not yet sure how I will mate the tubes to the injectors and intake flanges:

 

411_swap_k8_intake_alfa_flat_tubes.jpg

 

That's the news for now.

 

Jesse.



#39 Pedro

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 10:21 PM

Hey Jesse, any updates on this conversion?



#40 jfbrink

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 07:41 AM

I spent most of the Spring arranging a charity car show and finishing a large kinetic sculpture / bulletin board for a local school, so I haven't made major progress on the V6 project. The bulletin board I fabricated might be of interest to the Ratsun folks. See it in action, here: https://www.youtube....5Cc&list=PLMlrl

 

ballroll_installed.jpg

 

But, I have made some incremental progress on the V6 swap. I've properly modeled the intake / injector tubes that will unite the Mazda K8 V6 block with the Alfa intake. The tubes are within a few percent of each other in length/volume. Drawn as one piece, I will be casting them as six pieces: three bases and three tubes. I had thought I would use lost PLA casting, but it is way too time consuming when each print takes 11 hours and the plaster mold takes days to cure. So, I'll be sand casting.

 

k8_engine_intake_base_left_unified_tubes

 

The picture below shows the test fit of a partial print of the base that mounts to the K8 to make sure that all the holes and angles for the fuel rail / injectors line up. This was a complicated piece to measure and model, but I appear to have gotten it right the first time. What I realized while doing this is that the stock K8/KL intake runners are not well sized to the inlets on the block. Specifically, the inlets on the block are about 1.5mm smaller all the way around the perimeter, which I would think would create terrible turbulence as the air coming down the runner bangs into that lip.

 

kl_swap_injector_base.jpg

 

On the casting end, I bought and modified a small kiln to serve as my aluminum foundry. Craigslist is thick with decent $200 kilns, which seemed worth the price compared to building my own. It's so clean, quiet, safe and inexpensive to run. I augmented it with a temperature controller and a safety switch that kills current to the elements when the door is opened more than an inch (for when I'm banging around inside with my metal tongs). The interior is about 13" x 13" x 9". On 120V, it takes about 90 minutes to get up to temperature, after which I can melt a soda-can-sized crucible of aluminum every 15 minutes:

 

casting_kiln.jpg

 

I've been melting down all my scrap aluminum into relatively clean ingots:

 

casting_first_ingots.jpg

 

I've also purchased what I believe to be the correct combination of flex plate, starter and aluminum plate to join the RX-7 transmission to the V6 block. My MDF test adapter fits well enough. I won't be drilling the aluminum piece until I've really sorted out how the starter and ring gear align, with or without a spacer on the crank.

 

rx7-to-kl_trans_plate.jpg

 

That's it for now. I hope to get back into this a bit more frequently in the Fall. With me, progress is always slow, but steady.

 

Best,

 

Jesse.