Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

90 amp bolt in alternator on an L-series motor


  • Please log in to reply
246 replies to this topic

#1 Icehouse

Icehouse

    wolf man

  • User Administrator
  • 5,582 posts
  • Location:seattle WA
  • Cars:57 VW SC - 59 210 - 64 VW camper - 2 68 510 2 dr - 70 bluebird coupe - 3 71 510 2 drs - 73 1200 ute

Posted 28 January 2007 - 01:04 AM

I discovered that a ka24e alternator is 60amps but if you get a new on from Shucks it is a 90amp-105amp (or so they say, steve the engineer would now how to check :) ) for 180 bucks remanufactured in the US and it has a life time warranty (Job security for a few people :) ) Well after I brought it home I compared it to my spare SR alternator. They where the same except the pulley. The KA24e from the truck has a v belt style pulley all of the s13's have the wide belts, mini serpentine's I guess..... I also compared the bolt spacing, yep the same as the L and the SR. I'm not to surprised.

The V-belt was to long, it may have been due to a very worn out belt. We went from a 37 inch belt to a 36.5 and it fit perfect. Even some room for adjustment. I think the belt must have been super stretched because a 36 was way to short.

Posted Image

Starting from the left: 35amp 521 alt. 60amp z alt and a 90amp KA24e alt. Notice all the spacings are the same.

So with a little wiring you can have a IR 90amp alternator in your dime. A little more work you can have it in a pickup :D

To get it to fit in a truck.......(anybody??) I think Redeye form NWDE used a ZX lower outlet to give the bigger alternator more room. Wurker/slodat/ratwagon does a saturn alternator. It does require a custom upper mount.


The wiring is simple... I will do detailed pics when I find the memory card for my camera :( I may just buy a new cheapy one, I'm so sick of my cell camera....
Posted Image Posted Image

"All men by nature desire knowledge."
Aristotle

#2 BEEBANI

BEEBANI

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,092 posts
  • Location:Albany
  • Cars:'11 sentra, '11 Quest

Posted 28 January 2007 - 09:12 AM

I used a 65 amp GM alt in mine, had to make a custom bottom bracket, but it fit without having to change the water neck. Be careful with the schucks alternators, they have a lifetime warranty for a reason.....because they take a shit every 6-9 months. I had one on my beretta and they had to give me 4 free new ones for the 5 years or so that I had the car! I always try to get electrical components from NAPA, they may not have a lifetime warranty, but they last forever.

Ice, it looks like the z alt is longer from the bottom post to the top post than the other 2?

#3 Cuts metal like mad

Cuts metal like mad

    Datsun Mechanic

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,342 posts
  • Location:Puyallup
  • Cars:1970 521

Posted 28 January 2007 - 12:07 PM

Nice find Icehouse, I look forward to trying this in the wagon now!

#4 Bleach

Bleach

    French Administrator

  • User Administrator
  • 6,503 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Cars:smashed 280ZX turbo

Posted 28 January 2007 - 03:42 PM

For the truck guys (especially those running L16/L18) if 60amp is good enough for you there is one solution for internally regulated alts.

Importedcarparts.com Order the BOSCH alt for a 1978 Datsun 200SX. They list a high output one. Stock is 50amp, Bosch rebuilt them to 60amp. They are a diameter larger than the truck alt on the left but smaller than the Z alt. They fit great (bolt right in) and clear the idler arm bracket. Order the 200SX belt with it though for proper belt fitment.
Thank you Ted!
sig7.jpg
BleachGarage.com - Datsun Shows in the year 20XX 
I wished I lived in the golden age; giving it up on the broadway stage
Hang with the Ratsuns, smoke cigars; just have a break with Frank and count the stars

#5 Cuts metal like mad

Cuts metal like mad

    Datsun Mechanic

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,342 posts
  • Location:Puyallup
  • Cars:1970 521

Posted 28 January 2007 - 04:50 PM

I have used a z alt on my previous wagon and it was "ok". I was running H4s with an upgraded, independant, headlight harness. The lights would dim at night when idling, probably the wrong size pulley. On my new wagon I am gonna do H1s with an HID upgrade and the upgraded harness (same as before wih 2 relays low/high), so I think the KA alt will suit my needs better, if I get the right size pulley.

#6 slodat

slodat

    Rat-tastic

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,599 posts
  • Location:Central, WA
  • Cars:'69 521 :|: '54 Chevy Lead Sled :|: '14 Genesis Coupe

Posted 29 January 2007 - 09:43 AM

I always try to get electrical components from NAPA, they may not have a lifetime warranty, but they last forever.


The Schuck's alternators are about the lowest quality you can buy. All of the big "rebuilders" use the cheapest components available - bearings, rectifier diodes, etc. They work for a while. The way the company makes money is a numbers game. Very few people return them when they fail. The average person then goes to a real mechanic or auto electrical shop and pays for a quality alternator.

My advice is to either use a used, ORIGINAL OEM alternator (ie: the alternator that came on that 1990 whatchacallit) or pony up a few extra bucks and go to the local Joe Car Dude's Auto Electric. If they are worth a shit, they will let you make any applicable choices before they build the alternator for you. The reason I am a fan of the Saturn alternator (which is a GM/Delco CS-130) is there are hundreds of millions of them on the planet. It is a VERY good design. High output at very low engine speeds. All you need from the Saturn is the case. An alternator shop can build it to ~100a at idle and 150-200ish at speed. The range quality of parts for them is huge, so you can get high quality bearings, over sized rectifier diodes, etc.

End result. That cheapo alternator will leave your ass stranded on the side of the road in a second. Their warranty doesn't cover being stranded on a rainy night after a shit day at work. They just give you another all costs spared "rebuild".

#7 Jason

Jason

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,053 posts
  • Location:Richmond, BC, Canada
  • Cars:510's, Roadsters and a RHD Suzuki Every (JDM Yo!)

Posted 29 January 2007 - 10:26 AM

Steve, Kevin, the Bosch remans are junk. I bought one and had it fail 3 days out of warrantee. I got a "courtesy" 50% discount on the replacement, however ...... I agree with Steve, if a new part is available, by all means get it, one of the old, original 35amp Hitachi's I have as a spare is still working fine after umpteen gazillion miles and 35 years!
Jason

#8 slodat

slodat

    Rat-tastic

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,599 posts
  • Location:Central, WA
  • Cars:'69 521 :|: '54 Chevy Lead Sled :|: '14 Genesis Coupe

Posted 29 January 2007 - 10:35 AM

Jason, I thought I had written about the Bosch in the above post. I forgot. The Bosch remans are just el cheapos in a Bosch box with a Bosch sticker. They are complete junk. Like I said, that stuff is a pure numbers game for those companies.

ANY good alternator shop will build you an incredibly superior alternator.

#9 Bleach

Bleach

    French Administrator

  • User Administrator
  • 6,503 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Cars:smashed 280ZX turbo

Posted 29 January 2007 - 10:45 AM

I had Bosch in my truck for a year without fail, and the Bosch in my Z is almost always on full load. It has lasted me 5 years now.
I may do a Saturn swap (engine?) in my Z. :D
Thank you Ted!
sig7.jpg
BleachGarage.com - Datsun Shows in the year 20XX 
I wished I lived in the golden age; giving it up on the broadway stage
Hang with the Ratsuns, smoke cigars; just have a break with Frank and count the stars

#10 Jason

Jason

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,053 posts
  • Location:Richmond, BC, Canada
  • Cars:510's, Roadsters and a RHD Suzuki Every (JDM Yo!)

Posted 29 January 2007 - 10:54 AM

After my last experience (it faild about 150 miles from home!), I'll have mine re-built by a local shop here in Richmond. There work is superior and their customer service is excellent. I'm sick and tired of the re manufactured junk I buy failing. On that note, anyone got any idea of where I can buy a stock 3/4" "new" brake master cylinder, all I can find right now up here are re mans "shudder".....
Jason

#11 Bleach

Bleach

    French Administrator

  • User Administrator
  • 6,503 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Cars:smashed 280ZX turbo

Posted 29 January 2007 - 02:31 PM

also, do you folks have a volt meter installed?
I put one in my truck and it gave me a good warning a few days before the original 35amp alt died. I happened to be coming back from a trip to Oregon when it started to act up but at least I had an idea what was going on before my battery was just dead on the way to work one morning. :) My Z has a volt-meter from the factory.
Thank you Ted!
sig7.jpg
BleachGarage.com - Datsun Shows in the year 20XX 
I wished I lived in the golden age; giving it up on the broadway stage
Hang with the Ratsuns, smoke cigars; just have a break with Frank and count the stars

#12 Jason

Jason

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,053 posts
  • Location:Richmond, BC, Canada
  • Cars:510's, Roadsters and a RHD Suzuki Every (JDM Yo!)

Posted 29 January 2007 - 03:05 PM

No, no volt meter installed, I think I may have to some time.
Jason

#13 slodat

slodat

    Rat-tastic

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,599 posts
  • Location:Central, WA
  • Cars:'69 521 :|: '54 Chevy Lead Sled :|: '14 Genesis Coupe

Posted 29 January 2007 - 03:07 PM

A voltmeter is the best indicator of what is going on with the charging system. If you don't see > 13.0 vdc on the voltmeter, you have a problem - PERIOD.

This is based on physics. A lead acid battery has a nominal voltage of 2vdc. Your battery has 6 cells. 6 x 2.0 = 12vdc. In order to charge a lead acid battery the vpc (volts per cell) must be ~2.20vdc. 6 x 2.20 = 13.2vdc. If you charge a lead acid battery > 2.45vpc YOU WILL DESTROY the battery. It is only a matter of how long. Extended time will cause multiple problems that lead to plate shorts, etc.

So, the way to "test" the charging system:

1. Start the car.
2. If you have the popular ZX "upgrade" (which it is not much of an upgrade), rev the engine up >2k rpm to ensure the regulator turns on
3. Give the charging system some load - turn on the headlights and heater.
4. Check voltage at the battery posts
5. If it is 13.0 - 14.1 with a load on the system (accessories on) you are in good shape.
6. If it is less that 13 you have a problem. It will not go away.
7. If you replace a component in the charging system take the extra 5 minutes to install smart upgrades. A LOT has changed since '73 with respect to auto electrics. There are a rare few concourse datsuns in the world. Only an idiot will "go back to stock", so don't even say that BS.

What I would call "smart" upgrades:
1. Modern alternator with 90a or more output of good quality. Modern is not a 25 year old ZX design that is a minor improvement over the stock externally regulated 35a Hitachi
2. Install relays on the starter solenoid line and your headlights. You don't need HID's, you need full battery voltage at the headlight.
3. Upgrade the output wire on the alternator and get rid of that problematic factory splice by the alternator.
4. If you don't know what you are doing, get some help.

#14 Jason

Jason

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,053 posts
  • Location:Richmond, BC, Canada
  • Cars:510's, Roadsters and a RHD Suzuki Every (JDM Yo!)

Posted 29 January 2007 - 03:13 PM

These days I wandering farther and farther from home with the 510's. Heck, our club "cruises" are about 500 km's in a day now. I'm going to have to install the whole shebang I suppose, volt, temp and oil pressure, just to see what's up. Mind, the alternator packed it in on one of our club cruises on the way back. I just managed to limp home and figure it out. All of the 4500rpm running must have did it in.
Jason

#15 slodat

slodat

    Rat-tastic

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,599 posts
  • Location:Central, WA
  • Cars:'69 521 :|: '54 Chevy Lead Sled :|: '14 Genesis Coupe

Posted 29 January 2007 - 03:36 PM

The rpm comment made me think of something else. You can't spin an alternator above about 12k rpm and expect it to live very long - the bearings aren't designed to work above that speed. Two options, if you have a high revving engine, size the pulleys appropriately OR use a common case alternator (like the CS-130) and source upgraded bearings that are made to spin at higher speeds. Option one is probably the easiest.

#16 Jason

Jason

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,053 posts
  • Location:Richmond, BC, Canada
  • Cars:510's, Roadsters and a RHD Suzuki Every (JDM Yo!)

Posted 29 January 2007 - 03:42 PM

If you believe the local rebuilder has this covered now, after we figured out what killed mine, a couple of the guys went down to the rebuilder and spec'd out a nice alternator rebuild that would live on our engines. It even costs less than the Bosch re man, go figure that one Steve...... Sizing the pulley for lower rpm does help, however, some of the guys that have gone this route have reported "brown outs" on some more sensitive electrical components at idle in traffic.

Our club cruises average about 4 per year and any stretch of highway driving (like my runs down to Seattle from here) will see 4000rpm for pro longed periods of time. I'm at about 80mph or about 130kph at that rpm in 5th gear and I'm still getting passed by everyone. I'm running a dog leg 5 speed with the stock rear end and 14" tires too.
Jason

#17 Icehouse

Icehouse

    wolf man

  • User Administrator
  • 5,582 posts
  • Location:seattle WA
  • Cars:57 VW SC - 59 210 - 64 VW camper - 2 68 510 2 dr - 70 bluebird coupe - 3 71 510 2 drs - 73 1200 ute

Posted 29 January 2007 - 04:51 PM

I should of got a factory unit but I was a little broke....;)
Posted Image Posted Image

"All men by nature desire knowledge."
Aristotle

#18 Cuts metal like mad

Cuts metal like mad

    Datsun Mechanic

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,342 posts
  • Location:Puyallup
  • Cars:1970 521

Posted 29 January 2007 - 05:03 PM

Your right, I dont NEED HIDs... I'm installing them cause I want them, period. My friend has a set of aftermarket HIDs and the difference even in a 1999 "modern" car with H4s and the same car with HIDs is A-M-A-Z-I-N-G

#19 slodat

slodat

    Rat-tastic

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,599 posts
  • Location:Central, WA
  • Cars:'69 521 :|: '54 Chevy Lead Sled :|: '14 Genesis Coupe

Posted 29 January 2007 - 05:21 PM

I have yet to see a set of retrofitted/aftermarket HID headlights that are anything other than an eyesore. I am all about cool factor as well as doing things for no other reason that that's what a guy wants on his rig. My thing with these damn headlights is they are blinding to other drivers. My pal OregonDime was over sporting his new $400 investment on his 510 the other day. Damn things hurt my eyes just looking toward the front end of the car. Noticed the same thing driving home from Tacoma the other night on the front of a riced out (or is it 'sport' bike) sewing machine bike the other day.

My $12 Sylvania halogens illuminate the road better than most anyones setup, at least to my eyes. But I know how to lay out wiring so things work at their best. ie: relays placed at the correct point in the circuit, properly sized conductors AND grounds.

My .09 on ricey HIDious headlights..

Note: my opinion, don't take offense to it.
  • LTJ likes this

#20 Icehouse

Icehouse

    wolf man

  • User Administrator
  • 5,582 posts
  • Location:seattle WA
  • Cars:57 VW SC - 59 210 - 64 VW camper - 2 68 510 2 dr - 70 bluebird coupe - 3 71 510 2 drs - 73 1200 ute

Posted 29 January 2007 - 05:37 PM

What about the bmw projector head lights? do you like those? I'm gonna be installing those on my 4 door once I get it into the shop.
Posted Image Posted Image

"All men by nature desire knowledge."
Aristotle