fisch Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 As I posted in a suspension thread yesterday, I was surprised to find out I bought some Datsun Competition Racing struts. Competition catalog Part # 54302-22030 and #54303-22030. In 'How to Hotrod and Race Your Datsun' it says that you need to use the whole kit. But no where can I find what the specs of the kit were? (Mine have had a coil over kit put on.) First of all what makes the competition strut housing different than stock? Is spindle angle the same, shorter, etc? For instance, in the parts list, by 'bumper assembly', do they mean bump steer spacers? I can find no photos of this setup. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 Sits higher for road clearance. Probably same strut angle, measure.... should be 10 degrees. Smaller diameter coil so camber and castor are more adjustable. Quote Link to comment
Draker Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 It's interesting they didn't fit the race strut with bigger brakes. I guess they didn't feel like it was needed at the time? Quote Link to comment
fisch Posted March 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 It's interesting they didn't fit the race strut with bigger brakes. I guess they didn't feel like it was needed at the time? Mike what do you mean it sits higher? I thought it should lower it more? Also you mentioned the longer wheel studs. I know it helps with some wheels, but another theory is now that we know they were Comp struts, and it mentions needing up to a 20MM spacer for a 610. If they mean wheel spacer, that'd explain the longer wheel studs maybe? Draker I find that interesting too, to the point they say for 610 and 710 to use 510 brakes. I read an article in DQ about getting the most out of the stock brakes. Seems they can work quite well, expecially if you don't have a heavier engine in there. Personally I love a wide 13" wheel, and can imagine them coming back in fashion at some point. We could use some good tire options though! 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 For something like the African Safari or cross country in Australia, higher ground clearance would be more important. The roads were barely passable and you couldn't afford to rip anything off the undersides in a race. 1 Quote Link to comment
fisch Posted March 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 For something like the African Safari or cross country in Australia, higher ground clearance would be more important. The roads were barely passable and you couldn't afford to rip anything off the undersides in a race. Mike, I hear you but mine are the factory 'race' struts. It says the entire set-up would lower the car 2-1/2 inches. They have another section in that catalog that has 'rally' struts and specifically mention the African Safari. Which increases the ground clearance 1". They have a different part number than mine. 54302-22035 and 54303-22035. So the ones I have wouldn't be higher, right, they'd be lower. I have one apart and am taking some measurements. Anything specific I should measure? Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 Strut - Depth of insert Tube for the stock 510 is 405mm. I assume this is from the threads to the bottom of the strut tube. What does the competition one measure? Quote Link to comment
fisch Posted March 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 Here we go mike, some documenting as I pull them apart to restore them. It appears that the strut is 360mm deep to the center of the dished part at the bottom of the tube. (The ruler is to wide to go all the way to the bottom of the dish.) I went ahead and laid the competition strut on top of what I am pretty sure is a stock 510 strut. Spindle angle looks to be the same. But the strut certainly seems to be shorter than the stock one. THe photo is weird but they are lined up at the bottom. I see no signs that this was a split strut that was rewelded. The coil over job is well done. THe threaded sleeve appears to be tig welded at the top and bottom. Again I don't think they came this way from the factory, right? Had to be added later, but man it is clean. I was hoping for a Koni, but found a Mulholland inside. Body is a hair shorter than 360mm. Totally compressed it is 17" and extended it is 24". Top hat is needle bearing. Shot of the hub removal. Hey how do I get the hub off the rotor. I pulled the 4 bolts, but it is on there good. Any tricks or time for BFH? Quote Link to comment
shacks510 Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 Personally I love a wide 13" wheel, and can imagine them coming back in fashion at some point. We could use some good tire options though! I seriously think it would be worth it for a company or two to make a street oriented tire in wide 13" sizes. Street tire, as in something that isn't R compound, that doesn't cost $700/set and only last a year. I think they would still be more popular if there were more tires available. 1 Quote Link to comment
RedBanner Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 I cut a pair of these in half and shortened them. I had no idea what they were, and I could just slap myself. 2 Quote Link to comment
datsunfreak Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 Shot of the hub removal. Hey how do I get the hub off the rotor. I pulled the 4 bolts, but it is on there good. Any tricks or time for BFH? BFH. Preferably brass so you don't damage the hub. It's supposed to be sort of an interference fit, so... Quote Link to comment
fisch Posted March 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 I seriously think it would be worth it for a company or two to make a street oriented tire in wide 13" sizes. Street tire, as in something that isn't R compound, that doesn't cost $700/set and only last a year. I think they would still be more popular if there were more tires available. Agreed! I really think they could come back. Especially if we can get better brake caliper and rotor options that would work with a 13" wheel. Hell, bell bottoms came back for a while there. I never thought that would happen! Quote Link to comment
fisch Posted March 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 I cut a pair of these in half and shortened them. I had no idea what they were, and I could just slap myself. OWCH! Man they are pretty short already. With the bottom coil adjuster where it was, it'd be what, a 3-4" drop, and it could go an inch lower yet. How low did you go? Quote Link to comment
shacks510 Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 Agreed! I really think they could come back. Especially if we can get better brake caliper and rotor options that would work with a 13" wheel. Especially now with aftermarket brake components. I see lots of people running small diameter wheels with compact but efficient brake setups. I know there are factors that go along with cooling efficiency, etc., but the potential is there. Quote Link to comment
Eagle_Adam Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 I cut a pair of these in half and shortened them. I had no idea what they were, and I could just slap myself. They ended up on bad ass datsun tho ;) I forgive you How low did you go? 1 Quote Link to comment
Eagle_Adam Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 Took a while but I found it! Struts thanks to banner Break upgrade kit thanks to mklotz Quote Link to comment
fisch Posted March 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 They ended up on bad ass datsun tho ;) I forgive you Looks like a worthy sacrifice! I don't know how rare these are? 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 Yours may have also been shortened. The weld under the threaded tube. Look down inside the strut tube with a fleshlight and see if there is a seam. The trouble with the 510 strut is the caliper mounting bolt holes. They are 76mm apart and the only caliper that will fit it is from the A10.. not much of an up grade. In addition the 510 uses a smaller spindle bearing and every Datsun after uses a larger one so hubs and rotors won't swap on either. The S110 '80-'93 200sx has the same caliper bolt spacing as the zx @ 89mm so you can shorten them if you can figure out how to mount zx rotors. Stock Datsun strut tubes are 2" so why does the other farther one look larger??? Oh wait these are for later 610/710? the spindle bearing surfaces look larger too. 1 Quote Link to comment
fisch Posted March 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 Yours may have also been shortened. The weld under the threaded tube. Look down inside the strut tube with a fleshlight and see if there is a seam. The trouble with the 510 strut is the caliper mounting bolt holes. They are 76mm apart and the only caliper that will fit it is from the A10.. not much of an up grade. In addition the 510 uses a smaller spindle bearing and every Datsun after uses a larger one so hubs and rotors won't swap on either. The S110 '80-'93 200sx has the same caliper bolt spacing as the zx @ 89mm so you can shorten them if you can figure out how to mount zx rotors. Stock Datsun strut tubes are 2" so why does the other farther one look larger??? Oh wait these are for later 610/710? the spindle bearing surfaces look larger too. Optical illusion? Will check it out. If not, interesting. So you are thinking it is a 710, 610 spindle, but for some reason they ran 510 brake and rotor? Why would they do that? Or did you mention the early 610 710 were the same as the Datsun brake wise? I will measure the tube diameter tomorrow, but you are right it looks bigger and the spindle bearing surface looks bigger as well. What is the part # for the 610 or 710 struts? Could it be the same as the competition Just shortened? THat makes no sense or they wouldn't have special 'spacers' needed to run these on the 610 710. Unless, the 'spacer' refers to something put on top of the strut to make it longer, not wheel spacers. I saw no seem inside but will check again. Though they could have rethreaded it I guess? Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 Using these photos and being generous. I work out the spring rate as 'about' 106 lb/in. this is hardly different from the stock 89 lb/in. Aaron can you measure more accurately the thickness of the wire and the number of coils that can actually be compressed. (only those parts of the spring not touching the top and bottom) Looks like 7 1/2 coils and 5/16" thick. The more accurate these measurements the more accurate the calculation. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 Optical illusion? Will check it out. If not, interesting. So you are thinking it is a 710, 610 spindle, but for some reason they ran 510 brake and rotor? Why would they do that? Or did you mention the early 610 710 were the same as the Datsun brake wise? I will measure the tube diameter tomorrow, but you are right it looks bigger and the spindle bearing surface looks bigger as well. What is the part # for the 610 or 710 struts? Could it be the same as the competition Just shortened? THat makes no sense or they wouldn't have special 'spacers' needed to run these on the 610 710. Unless, the 'spacer' refers to something put on top of the strut to make it longer, not wheel spacers. I saw no seem inside but will check again. Though they could have rethreaded it I guess? Measure between the caliper bolt mounting holes, center to center. Bet it's 510 size 76mm. Don't forget the 610/710 used the same brake caliper as the 510. I assumed the original 510 tube was 2" maybe it was smaller.... and why there are two different bump steer spacers. Quote Link to comment
fisch Posted March 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 Aaron can you measure more accurately the thickness of the wire and the number of coils that can actually be compressed. (only those parts of the spring not touching the top and bottom) Looks like 7 1/2 coils and 5/16" thick. You mean me, right? I will get out there tomorrow and measure a few things including the spring! 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 Oh fuck did I call you a name? sorry. You should come round more often then so I remembers more better. 1 Quote Link to comment
fisch Posted March 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 Measure between the caliper bolt mounting holes, center to center. Bet it's 510 size 76mm. Don't forget the 610/710 used the same brake caliper as the 510. I assumed the original 510 tube was 2" maybe it was smaller.... and why there are two different bump steer spacers. What do you mean bump steer spacers? There aren't any Bump Steer Spacers attached to these struts? Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 As the car is lowered the lower control arm tilts up at the wheel end. This shortens it's horizontal length which pulls the rear of the wheel inward, in effect toeing outward. Once the lowered car is adjusted for toe, imagine going over a large bump where the lower control arm moves way up even higher. The result is called bump steer and you can feel the car steer itself if one wheel goes over a bump. To correct this a spacer is mounted between the strut and the lower control arm lowering it back into a horizontal position where it is least affected. I know that there are two sizes of spacers. I wonder if the 510 and that other strut have different size strut tube widths. Ah found something... Quote Link to comment
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