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GM 2.8/3.1/3.8L Swap into 79 510?


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I recently bought a 79 Datsun 510 2 door sedan with the original L20B.  Well the car runs OK, but almost everything is worn out.  Engine burns about a quart every 2 weeks, 4 speed trans has a slow leak, need to fix all things rubber...but it gets me back and forth to work for now.  I am wanting to save up and do a swap to something I know a little more about.  I rebuilt the 3.8L out of a 2001 impala, so I am familiar with the 60 degree architecture.  My goal is to get more torque, lots and lots of torque.  I want to autocross/rally race it at some point.  I want to go simple v6 pushrod design to keep weight and size down so I don't mess up the handling too much, and do something cheap.  I am trying to get an idea of the cost of the v6 with the 5 speed manual from an s10.

 

Yes I have read up on the L20B, and I figured that getting a hold of dual sidedrafts and intake to match may be easiest but also hard to find and expensive.  I figure I can go to a u-pull-it and grab an engine for a few hundred.

 

Give me an idea of how much fab I will have to do, cost of fab, upgrade suspension and how.  And of course anything I am forgetting. 

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The 2.8 are junk... if you must, get a 3.8 preferably a 3800 with EFI. I think the S-10 5 speed works with this. Not a lot have done this so there not much to know about it. A lot of fabrication... engine and transmission mounts and fitting the engine oil pan to clear the Datsun crossmember/steering and sway bar. Custom rad. Shortened driveshaft with a chev spline to fit the S-10 5 speed. Then wiring and exhaust.

 

You should read a few A10 builds in regard to brake and suspension upgrades.

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If doing any 60 degree, go with 3.8 like mike said. If doing 3.8, get a gen II version. The n/a gen II makes as much power as a gen I supercharged. But honestly I would just go with the gen II 3.8 supercharged.

 

The s10 trans fits them. If you can handle the fab work to get it in, the rest of what it takes to swap the 3800 has been covered repeatedly on Chevy websites. It's a common swap engine.

 

Transmissions and engines can both be found fairly easily in pull it yourself j unkyards too.

 

Additionally, you can get fancy with transmissions. 90s jeep wrangler 4 cylinder used the GM 60 degree bellhousing bolt pattern. The transmission is called the ax4. That transmission has a removable bellhousing and is mated to an Aisin transmission.

 

Toyota W-series transmissions are also made by Aisin. They also have removable bellhousings. Some of them are known to take over 300 horsepower as a daily used vehicle, like the w58.

 

That Jeep ax5 bellhousing will bolt a Toyota transmission to a Chevy 60 degree engine. You have to use the jeep bellhousing and the jeep input shaft. The input shaft swaps in to the Toyota trans. Then use the jeep starter, with the 3.8 camaro manual trans flywheel. Last piece of the puzzle its the clutch. The jeep clutch plate and pressure plate measurements are within thousandths of the s10 setup. You can likely just use the jeep clutch. At worst, use the GM pressure plate with the jeep clutch plate.

 

The Toyota transmissions will give you a huge number of gearing options not available to the s10, thus the advantage of putting together that crazy puzzle.

 

There may be a gap in that info. A flywheel spacer, or flywheel machining or who knows, but the huge majority of that info is solid.

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When we get into gms, it is something i know a little about. I can mate a 90s camaro trans to it as well if i pull it from the 6 banger, in fact i may be able to pull the entire set up. I forgot about having to get a custom shaft. I didn't want to go efi for simplicity of instalation, but i may just run it through an msd box to simpify the wiring. Hmmm, i wonder if the 2.8 carbed intake will fit the 3.1 or early 3.8. I will have to ask my mech teacher back in tenn about that. Thanks about the franken trans info, hopefully i dont have to cobble that much. But now i have the info just in case.

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No reason at all you should HAVE to build one at all. Just lots of reasons you might want to.

 

Overcome the fear. Carbing a 3800 isn't worth it. Just learn the wiring. You only have to understand one wire at a time.

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Yeah, I probably will go efi. I dont feel like engeneering the aluminum intake to take a carb. I have a friend that has an extra msd, i will ask about buying it from him. I am thinking either 3.1 because it is smaller i can buy a new long block for the same price as an l20b, or the series 2 3.8. Remanufactured.com has a sc 3.8 in its garage sale section for $800. But i know i could get either for cheaper at a yard. I am surprised i didnt get any flack for thinking about cutting up a 510.

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Yeah well craming a v8 would be too much for the car. I also plan to paint it that fighter style at the top of the page, and belch the exaust just behind the front tire about 4" above the bottom of the car. Just cuta holeal and heat shield it. Two reasons, 1. Awesome paint job, 2. The side pipes are easier to fab. I dont have to worry about any crosspipes, not fitting around the trans, and i can keep it tucked up above the body line. It is a good thing i know a welder.

 

Now, I just need to save up about 4k to do it. Thanks for the info.

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What?

 

Side drafts are expensive...so you're going to buy a random engine and tranny that isn't easily compatible with the car?

 

Side note: im an A10 guy and I am a ford guy. So what you plan to do is double blasphemy

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I grew up with GMs, and I have rebuilt the 3.8L.  I am going to something I know.  It would cost about 2k to even rebuild the L20B anyways before i put a good cam and carbs on it.  I want more torque, hence the v6 swap, and Ford's v6's are not known for torque or reliability.  I have no brand loyalty, I  am just going with what would be ridiculous amount of fun and what I know.

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If i was going v8, I would get my friends gen 1 383.  His dad built it for a 68 impala, made 600hp at the wheels.  He recently pulled it out of his truck to put in a 400.  the 383 still runs and I could get it for about $500.  But......that is WAY too much weight and power for such a little car.  I don't want to hurt the nimble handling too much.

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If i keep the l20b, then i am going to hunt down a dogleg 5 speed. But i am not the kind of guy who starts a project and doesnt finish it, it would bug me to much. I'm more likely to go without food to get car parts. The only 2 things i have never finished was reading House of the Seven Gables and Moby Dick. Now those were boring.

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From what I've read, a KA24DE drops right into the A10. Lots of power, lots of available upgrades, lots of documentation, and simple to boot! ... and if a KA will drop in, so will a CA18DET or even an SR20DET... all capable of putting out as much power as you can usefully have in a car that light(all MUCH lighter, too). I'd go that route before putting in a V6/V8. Lots of luck to you!

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the 3800 is a great engine, makes good power and will last forever if you take care of it. the 3800 is a 90 degree V6 but the trans is a 60 degree pattern, so find a Camaro with a V6 and 5 speed and take the trans and pressure plate, since the engine you have is a front wheel drive you will also need a pilot bearing, as far as the drive shaft goes the end cap for the Datsun rear will slid into the Chevy one so its real easy to Fab up. mine has a painless wiring harness but the Camaro one will work because all series II N/A 3800s use the same PCM and are all pinned the same after 96, if you get a automatic trans PCM you will get Cell codes for it. If you have anymore questions hit me up. I realize I have a 510 and not an A10 but I know the 3800 in and out so if you have any question hit me up.

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the 3800 is a great engine, makes good power and will last forever if you take care of it. the 3800 is a 90 degree V6 but the trans is a 60 degree pattern, so find a Camaro with a V6 and 5 speed and take the trans and pressure plate, since the engine you have is a front wheel drive you will also need a pilot bearing, as far as the drive shaft goes the end cap for the Datsun rear will slid into the Chevy one so its real easy to Fab up. mine has a painless wiring harness but the Camaro one will work because all series II N/A 3800s use the same PCM and are all pinned the same after 96, if you get a automatic trans PCM you will get Cell codes for it. If you have anymore questions hit me up. I realize I have a 510 and not an A10 but I know the 3800 in and out so if you have any question hit me up.

Dude, someone actually did it.  Now brace yourself for the storm of questions and remember you offered.  Can you send me a write up from your swap?  How much did it cost you?  How difficult was it, certain things to watch out for?  How much did you have to shorten the drive shaft?  Where did you put the engine mounts?  Did you have to change the steering? I know the 3.8 pretty well, but this will be my first engine swap that isn't straight forward.  Can you send me pics?

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Unless you plan to keep the car forever or just want to spin tires all day, I would just rebuild the L20, find some side drafts/cannon intake. L engines are easy to do for sure. You could save yourself big money by finding good side drafts instead of new Webers. Just my opinion though.

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