Tolkmod Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Yo rats... Just a simple question. Is there any L series engine and transmission that's a direct swap (meaning I don't have to do any cross member mods other than engine mounts) for the 74' B210 sedans? Just curious, getting my tax refund soon and so I'm putting it away to start saving for an engine swap so i wanted to go as easy/smooth as possible. (Yeah, this is just a info gathering post, not a send me an offer with your engine post) You might be asking why I want to do this, main reason: So hard to find any parts or upgrades for the (one year only) A13 that's in my car now. I'd like something that's a little easier to find parts and upgrades for in the future, and seeing as the L series seems to have a lot of mods and aftermarket parts to work with it is the obvious choice. If there's a good argument for going with something else, then by all means fly it by me. Thanks! -Tolk Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 There were A15 engines. That's a 15% increase. Coupe and wagon 210s had them Quote Link to comment
Tolkmod Posted January 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 There were A15 engines. That's a 15% increase. Coupe and wagon 210s had them Guess I should have asked for something that's easy to find ;) I mean, if it's completely impossible to swap in an L engine (even considering a L16) without a 510 cross member then might as well go with like an L28 (not even sure if it would fit). I didn't want to go over kill on the engine, to be honest I'd rather like an L16 swap, it's around the same size, with about 20-30 HP more than my A13, and has a ton of mods and support out there as well. So if i can find a decent one for a good price I might just go that route. Quote Link to comment
flatcat19 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 A 510 crossmember shouldn't be terribly difficult to find. And with how much easier it would make your swap...I'd chase one down. Quote Link to comment
Tolkmod Posted January 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 A 510 crossmember shouldn't be terribly difficult to find. And with how much easier it would make your swap...I'd chase one down. ok... i'll start keeping my eye out for one Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 You said any L series and transmission that's a direct swap without cross member mods remember? Doubt if any L series transmission will also fit. L28 is a boat anchor and worse fit than an L 4 cylinder and there are better 4 cylinders with as much power and a closer fir. Only another A series will fit directly. L16 is barely 65-70 HP, L18 about 80 and L20B about 90. If doing an L16 might as well an L20B. Quote Link to comment
Tolkmod Posted January 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Quoted from datsun1200 website.. The L16 was a 1,595 cc engine produced from 1967 through 1973 for the Datsun 510. It produces 96 hp (72 kW) through 1971 then 92 hp (69 kW). Bore and stroke were 83.0 mm and 73.7 mm, respectively. 96HP with no mods is still 21HP more than my A13 (sitting at 75hp if i'm lucky, and 1288cc). How is that not a great boost in HP, let alone the availability of parts and upgrades? Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Back then engines were rated by Gross HP. That's an engine on a stand, no muffler, no alternator or water pump, no parasitic draw often tuned for power not economy, no air filter no fuel pump.... basically the engine's output under the most ideal conditions. Car makers liked to advertise how much more power their engines made. It got out of hand and people started complaining that their 300 hp car would barely top 100 mph????? So new standards for testing were introduced. Now engines are rated with everything on and working. Exhaust mufflers, water pumps, alternators all drag the readings down a lot but now a 100 hp is a 100 HP and different engines compare more favorably.This is now known as the Net HP rating. Take a look at some stock L series engine dyno charts.... http://www.datsuns.com/tech/datsundyno.htm 1 Quote Link to comment
510freak Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I remember back in the late 80's, there was a b-210 local to where I was, with a L-16/18 it used to tear shit up.It was impressive Quote Link to comment
Lockleaf Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Since both his engine and the engine he wants were rated as gross hp, the overall percentage in power increase is still nearly the same, even if the numbers are lower. And it's hard to argue that the L has more options available to build additional power. But I have no advice on the swap. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I had a '76 A14 B-210 and it was 78HP? Probably Gross rating Quote Link to comment
510freak Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I had a '76 A14 B-210 and it was 78HP? Probably Gross rating I had a 77 b-210. It was fun,nothing gross about it But really,one needs to test the limit, I bet you I could scare the shit out of yah Mike ,In a gross rated 78 hp a-14 1 Quote Link to comment
Dguy210 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 This is actually a relatively easy swap on the scale of things, hell they sold the pb210 with an L14 (although the weight difference made it slower than an A14). The only major difference between the B210 and 510 crossmember is the motor mount towers (yes I know the LCA mounts are 1/2 inch off but this is trivial). 510 crossmembers are not that hard to find and you could cut down the B210 towers and reweld them for the height/angle difference. I've seen 510 crossmembers for sale at every single Eagle rock and several other swapmeets. I'm actually prepping for this swap myself in my '74. Quote Link to comment
Tolkmod Posted January 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 so, from what I gather the easiest way to even start this kind of project is to get a 510 crossmember. From what I've seen it also opens up my options quite a bit... Only thing i'm worried about is the drive train really, I mean upgrading with something like an L20b, or even an L28 would require a lot of mods on that end as well. The reason why i was thinking an L16 was because they're roughly the same size (physically wise) and i was hoping I could use my current drive shaft and differential. If that's even possible. And yeah, complete ignorance on my part is probably contributing a lot to my frustration and inability to figure out what I need, and mesh that with what i want. Wish this was the friggin matrix and I could just download all operating knowledge about vehicles into my brain and be done with it lol Quote Link to comment
Dguy210 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 so, from what I gather the easiest way to even start this kind of project is to get a 510 crossmember. From what I've seen it also opens up my options quite a bit... Only thing i'm worried about is the drive train really, I mean upgrading with something like an L20b, or even an L28 would require a lot of mods on that end as well. The reason why i was thinking an L16 was because they're roughly the same size (physically wise) and i was hoping I could use my current drive shaft and differential. If that's even possible. And yeah, complete ignorance on my part is probably contributing a lot to my frustration and inability to figure out what I need, and mesh that with what i want. Wish this was the friggin matrix and I could just download all operating knowledge about vehicles into my brain and be done with it lol For any B210 except a 1974 you could probably get away with using your current driveshaft and differential. Alas, the 1974 has the h145 not h150 diff and uses a 1200 style driveshaft flange (if I remember right). You could get it all to bolt up if you used or had a 1974 b210 automatic driveshaft (input spline is the same as L series trans, manual is smaller) but the h145 is a weak diff behind an A14 not to mention an L16 and h150 is a bit weak for an L16 but would be ok if you didn't push it too hard. Good thing is the parts you would want to replace are reasonably easy to get. l16-l20b engines are all very close in size. Also a 510 wagon rearend is a relatively easy upgrade, basically bolt in although you do need the rear spring shackles from the 510 wagon and you will need to replace or ream out the rubber bushing on the bottom of the shock (did this swap on my 1200). You will also need a 510 sedan driveshaft (same as B210 auto driveshaft). So really all the parts you need are from a 510 wagon, with the exception of the driveshaft which would need to be from a 510 sedan. Edit: Do you have an auto or manual car? Quote Link to comment
flatcat19 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Anything needed to do to the L20 would have to be done to the 16 as well. Keep it simple. This is nothing more than nuts and bolts. 1 Quote Link to comment
fritzdixxon Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 The a10 l20b may fit without changing cross member front sump oil pan on those ones, motor mounts however..... Quote Link to comment
Dguy210 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 The a10 l20b may fit without changing cross member front sump oil pan on those ones, motor mounts however..... B210 is mid-sump, just like a 510. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Should specify the '510' is actually the PL510 NOT the HL510 or A10 engine cross member. Did I get that right? edited My '76 had the press in non serviceable U joints so better to get a larger one capable of an L20B. Same with differential. Best would be the '81-'82 S110 which fits the b-210 (width wise) and has an H-190 and rear disc brakes. Quote Link to comment
Dguy210 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Should specify the '510' is actually the HL510 or A10 NOT the PL510 engine cross member. Did I get that right? My '76 had the press in non serviceable U joints so better to get a larger one capable of an L20B. Same with differential. Best would be the '81-'82 S110 which fits the b-210 (width wise) and has an H-190 and rear disc brakes. No that's backwards. The PL510 is the crossmember you want, not the A10. A10 crossmember would be for 210 to L series upgrade (front sump). The S110 rearend is better but would require welding and some light fabrication, while the 510 wagon rearend is a literal bolt in, slightly wider but it turns out to be trivial in practice. The 510 sedan driveshaft is the same as an B210 auto driveshaft so the U-joints don't matter. Manual B210 driveshaft will not fit a L series transmission as the output spline is different. Honestly, for upgrades just treat the B210 as a weird 510 wagon and a ton of stuff swaps over. Front ends for North American B210 and early 510 are basically identical (few minor differences but not of any importance). 2 Quote Link to comment
Tolkmod Posted January 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 Will an already flipped 510 cross member work with an L series engine? or will I have to get an unmodified one? I can't seem to find any that haven't already been flipped lol Quote Link to comment
Lockleaf Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 Flipped will mean that you need a front sump oil pan. I think those only came in the a10, but I'm not sure. You could always undo the flip as well. Quote Link to comment
Tolkmod Posted January 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 ugh... just gotta keep my feelers out i guess Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 If you have a stock 510 X member then a 510 oil pan will fit any L series engine you choose and make it work. If the X member has been flipped this is usually to accommodate a SR or KA swap's oil pan. Your L oil pan of choice would have to match that. Maybe look into the 610/710/A10 and S10 X members. All had L series engines. Might be easier to find and modify one yourself. Quote Link to comment
Tolkmod Posted January 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 If you have a stock 510 X member then a 510 oil pan will fit any L series engine you choose and make it work. If the X member has been flipped this is usually to accommodate a SR or KA swap's oil pan. Your L oil pan of choice would have to match that. Maybe look into the 610/710/A10 and S10 X members. All had L series engines. Might be easier to find and modify one yourself. Ooo.. :thumbup: :thumbup: good idea D-mike, thanks... I'll start checking those out as well. I actually was going to ask about that, so good timing! Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.