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74 620 No charge, new Voltage Regulator, ancient Alternator


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I don't want to do an upgrade since I intend no electrical upgrades.

 

Lots of Horror Stories about honoring Lifetime Warranties (which was my initial thought.)

 

I can rebuild alternators and this one uses the Standard D12 diode pack.  I think I could buy a quality one from our local electrical Wizards (yes, they truly are) at Murray Electric in Delmont, PA.  (Plug! Plug!)

 

I'll pull it tomorrow, take it to Advance to check out, and then if bad, I'll take it apart and check diodes and fields myself.

 

Then....

 

(Undecided)

 

NOTE:  I just upgraded a Prestolite 40 amp (the Big One) on my factory Paxton supercharged 1963 Studebaker Super Lark (yeah, Plug Plug) with a 55 amp Toyota I think - I have the part numbers somewhere...  BUT it is a VERY SMALL alternator and might be a good candidate for an upgrade.  And 55 amp while not 100 amps, is definitely a lot better than the 35 amp.

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Let's start with the important issue first. Stude made a factory blown Lark; this isn't a conversion someone has done? I knew about factory blowers on the bigger cars, but not Larks. How many of these were made?

 

Oh yeah, you had an electrical question. It makes sense that if the regulator is good and still no charge that the alternator is kaput. But that brings up a memory of something that may well be an automotive urban legend - the idea that a bad alternator can (but not always) burn out a new regulator. The story goes that you replace the regulator, then the bad alternator, but still no charge. Because the new regulator has been destroyed by something shorted in the old alternator. This idea always sounded kind of fishy to me, like a way for the parts house to sell the customer two parts instead of one, but maybe there is a basis for the story. Any electrical gurus want to confirm or deny this possibility?

 

I've always wondered if running a stock or slightly larger amp alternator in a Datsun doesn't work just fine, unless you are running a mammoth stereo or big driving lights or something else that puts a big load on the electrical system. I've got a IR Maxima or 280Z alternator on my 510. I think it is a little higher output than the original L20b one, but nowhere near the amps of the replacement alts some guys do. And yes, I do feel a certain amount of amp envy, so I'll probably get a higher output unit in the future even though what I have is working well.

 

Len

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I don't think the wiring is heavy enough in at least up to the 1974 L18 620.  In fact, they sure dropped those Black Rubber Barrel Connectors in a heartbeat!

 

Anyhow, here are some details for the Studebaker 35/40 amp Prestolite upgrade:

 

  • 14158 is the alternator part number
  • 1976-1983 Honda Civic Prelude Accord MPA
  • Dimensions:
    • Ears:
      • Radial and circumferential dimension are SAME
      • Axial distance from outboard surface is 1/4" smaller than the OE 620
    • Housing diameter:
      • 1/16" larger diameter at the front
      • 1/4" larger diameter at the rear (the OE is tapered

The 14158 is a 50 amp unit and it looks like it might fit - I don't know how close that steering arm is.

 

Here are some good pics of it:  http://www.carid.com/remy/remanufactured-alternator-mpn-14158.html?gclid=Cj0KEQiAyIayBRDo4vjdqJrgxZ0BEiQAhOYCYNG59e8giyfkGMmJquecCYBKE_2qMFR3K-WlGSxYA3waAlr68P8HAQ#applications

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I just threw it out there.  Seems like lots of alternators will fit.

 

I just got my reman one from Advance and it is radically smaller than the OE - it is still a Hitachi.

 

The differences are

  • Body diameter is at least 1/2" smaller
  • Ear bolt hold dimension from bottom to top ear is about 1" shorter

Turns out the bottom ear to body dimension is about the same so the body is not closer to the steering knuckle.

 

It fits fine and frankly, the smaller body and ear-to-ear dimension make it so much easier to install.

 

I'm ready to put the battery in and fire it up and hopefully everything works.  (new VR too)

 

EDIT: 

 

It just doesn't stop...  So I hook the battery up and turn the lights on.. nothing.  So I start checking the terminals and while I'm watching the corroded male blade connector for the loom positive connection to the fusible link, arced, and the blade seperated from the crimp.  Corrosion is so bad on this truck.  (Even the alternator and voltage regulated were destroyed by corrosion.)

 

Oh well, now what kind of connector to use.  I wonder if I have some M & F terminals for the large blade style (I think it is 3/8" instead of 1/4")?

 

EDIT-2:

 

I spent all this time rigging fusible link to the OE loom connector and now its all wiped out - back to the drawing board:

 

I actually got an OE fusible link from Jersey and it appears to use a 5/16" wide blade which is also referred to a "Packard 56" connector if I'm correct.  There is also a "wide" connector that is 3/8" wide.  We're talking Hen's Teeth here folks - McMaster doesn't have anything wider that the ubiquitous 1/4 inch.

 

But to hang the entire wiring system off a 1/4" crimp quick disconnect blade (we're talking 2-crimps and a joint), I don't like it.  Nissan stepped up to the 5/16" and they are brass. 

 

But 1/4" blades come in 10-12ga wire sizes and 10 ga  is definitely in the 40 amp range depending on how long the run is.  (Checked a wiring URL and 15-20' of 10ga is good for 50 amps.  Is it safe to assume that since 1/4" blades come in 10-12" wire sizes, they are good for 50 amps? - an even more if shorter runs?)

 

Now I'm thinking maybe replace fusible link with a 40 amp fuse in a nice fuse block with robust connections.

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They sell the wider blades at O'Reilly Auto. They have them on the shelf. I used them just a week ago when I had to pick a fight with my 720s fusible links. They fit fine. I'm assuming the same blade would work in your vehicle.

 

If you choose to switch to a fuse based system, make sure you use something like maxi fuses, which are "slow burn" fuses, like fusible links. I've been doing research to build one for my 720 for the last little while.

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UPDATE and CONCLUSION:

 

All the new stuff is installed.  No issues.  Works fine.

_________________________________

 

I decided to completely solder the fusible link in to the loom wire.

 

I extended the loom wire about 8" because it is quite short:  used a crimp union, soldered, shrink tubed.

 

I soldered the fusible link to the 12ga extension from loom wire.  Since I was going from 18ga to 12 ga, I wanted a nice smooth transition so I taper cut the 12ga over a length of about 1/2 inch.  I laid the 18ga along this 12ga and then wrapped (bound) it with telephone wire.  This was a nice smooth transition from 18ga to 12 ga which would have minimal stress concentrations once soldered.  Soldered it and shrink tubed.  Beautiful, smooth taper transition between the two wire sizes.

 

And I swear I picked up some voltage doing it that way.

 

So that wraps up this task. :thumbup:

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Were yours 5/16?  (0.3125")  I believe that is the Packard "56" (wonder if the "56" means 5/16?)

 

I don't have O-Reilly's here unfortunately.  I have Carquest, Advance, AutoZone, NAPA, Pep Boys and a couple independents:  66 Auto Supply which has the highest density of tons of stuff around - real Old School, and Toona which maybe is a chain but maybe not.

 

I was upset with the whole concept of crimp terminals and connectors so I soldered everything.  Frankly, I'm glad I did it that way.  It is cleaner, more robust, and cheaper too.

 

Those Maxi Fuses sound good.  I've heard of them but need to read up on them..  But I'll bet it will cost $10-20 to buy the fuse and holder?  and how do the wires connect to the holder?

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NOTE:  I thought I had posted this - it was sitting on my PC overnight, so it will be a little out of sequence:

 

I got a new Bosch closeout regulator for it from RockAuto for like $11 - hopefully it is still good.  But since relays and contacts, it would take a lot to smoke one of those.

 

I had to polish the horn and wiper switch copper contact pads because they simply did not work due to massive green crud oxidation (in my pics link) so I'm thinking there could be some corrosion in the alternator.  If it tests bad at Advance, I'll still take it apart to see what is going on.

 

As for the Lark:

 

Studebaker put Paxton blowers on all the 63 and 64 models - this coincided with the Avanti which got the blower in 62.  Mine is what they call a "package" Super lark - it is exactly like what a Z28 Chevy was:  the whole car got upgrades and badges on the body.  This is what they did to the Lark:

  • Paxton Supercharger
  • Traction bars
  • HD suspension
  • Front and rear sway bars
  • Dual exhaust
  • T-10 4-speed w/floor shifter
  • Heavier gauge frame
  • Adjustable Gabriel shocks
  • "Avanti Supercharged" emblems on the fender bottoms
  • "R2" badge on the lower LHS of the grille

Hot Rod magazine tested

 

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From what I saw, the alternator body can be a large diameter, its just that the bottom ears have to be the same "length" - the bottom bolts have to be the same distance from the body.

 

But seeing that really small alternator I got from Advance, it is clear you can get a lot more amps out of one the OE size (like the Stude Honda 50amp upgrade).

 

Like others have said, there are probably a bunch of Nissan Hitachi alternators that will simply bolt right in.

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I have found there are two different alternator brackets used on L-16, and L-18 engines.   A welded, and stamped steel one, and a cast one.  The cast one holds the bottom two ears on the alternator a little lower, and makes it easier to fit a larger diameter alternator on the engine.  I think the cast bracket was used on L-18, and L-20B engines.  On your vehicle, you might have a clearance with chassis parts.

 

I was able to got to a junk yard, and get an alternator from a Nissan pathfinder, and the spacing on the lower ears fits the cast L-18 bracket, and it puts the pulley in alignment with the water pump and crankshaft pulley.

 

I have seen too many have jobs making a Saturn alternator fit a Datsun engine.

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The Z series engine mount is slightly higher and allows a 50 amp from a car to fit the 620 (a '78).... barely. I also used a 280z bottom rad hose inlet as it sweeps back closer to the block and misses the bulge in the alternator. The idler arm jerks fitting could be removed and a plug put in for more room. I can't remember if I used the stock belt but you had to put the belt on the pulley, and then insert the two bottom mounting bolts. It was the only way to keep the alt high enough to tension it without hitting the idles arm fitting. This was years before I found NWDE. I thought I was the only Datsun owner in N Am.

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I think it does. NWDE was (and may still be) just some Datsun guys who meet once every month at the same place and talk cars. They threw up a site and it quickly became a forum for people from all over. There was little interest from the NWDE 'owners' at this point. Jeff was quite vocal about having member meets and runs and some money making raffles, stickers etc. and such to get the site upgraded. As I remember it, NWDE again wasn't interested in actually running anything even though Jeff, I think, offered to run it, they just wanted to meet once a month and shoot the shit about their Datsuns. On the forum there was a lot of discussion about improvements and eventually Jeff told them, forget it I'll start my own site and left. With Thomas' help he brought into being the greatest Datsun forum there is and many old NWDE members left in droves for the new sire that was theirs. Good times

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