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The honey bucket- 1972 510 4 door build


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#41 Lockleaf

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 08:17 PM

Hammer welding standard mig wire welds often results in cracking, particularly if you do multiple tacks and then go back to try to hammer them all. They are way too cold at that point. While you might be getting to work well, it is most assuredly not a technique for a beginner to be dealing with.

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#42 Xnke

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 10:51 PM

Did you not see that I recommended the bodywork wire?

 

TwentyGauge is not standard mig wire, it's butter soft. Don't use it for structural stuff.



#43 Lockleaf

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 08:43 AM

Ah, easy grind wire. That makes more sense.

Half Pint ('71 510 Goon) http://community.rat...agon/p?=1269361

 

Audrey ('69 Roadster 1600) http://community.rat...rey-the-ratster

 

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#44 Wutang_415

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 10:09 AM

More voltage, more wire speed. You're too slow and too cold. You're just blowing in spots here, never trying to run a bead.

 

It will take a LOT of practice to get comfortable doing 20 gauge sheet with 0.023 wire and C25-but it's a hell of a lot nicer than 0.030 and C02, and it's a whole world apart from trying to work with flux core...flux core will cause your paint to pop off later, because you just can't get all the flux off the weld.

 

Go to your local welding supply and ask for Harris/Perfect Circle "TwentyGauge" wire. It's got a shotgun shell on the side of the spool, and it's specifically made for body work.

 

DO NOT FLANGE YOUR PANELS! It will make correcting any warpage basically impossible. DON'T DO IT!

 

Line up the panel and use magnets or panel clamps to hold it in place. If you flange the panel, the next bit is impossible and you will have to use a shitload of body filler.

 

The correct (and easiest) way to do panel patches is to cut the edges and line'em up, and set the gap to about the size of the wire-which you seem to be doing. Then, you spot it at each end, and in the middle. Just three spots to start!

 

Then, take a dolly and a hammer and flatten the weld-you will want to practice on some 20g sheet first to learn how hard to hit and how many strikes it will take. The idea is to learn how much you need to hammer the weld to get the spot weld to stretch out enough to restore your gap back to the size of the wire.

 

Check your fitment, make sure it's correct now.

 

Divide the distance between your spot welds in half, and put two more spots in. Hammer them to stretch till the gap is back to wire size.

 

Repeat. Keep the panel bare-hand touchable the entire time-it should never get hot enough to burn you.

 

Once you have the panel welded solid with the spot welds, you take your 4.5" cut-off wheel (do not use a flap disk!) and use the edge of the cut off wheel to grind the weld only. Do not grind the panels, and don't try to get it perfect, you're preparing for the flap disk.

 

Only once you've ground the weld back, do you switch to a flap disk. Use a sharp new one, and a very light touch-used, worn, old ones will actually heat your panel up too much and cause a warp. (You can use that to your advantage if you need to shrink up some places when you fix dents!

 

Once the welding is complete, make absolutely sure you shoot the back side of the weld with a good PAINT. Do not just shoot it in primer and leave it...this goes for weld-thru primer too. It WILL rust later if it's not sealed with paint.

 

Ocassionally you'll get lucky with this method and not need any filler at all, but usually, a skim coat is needed to correct for missed hammer strikes or grind marks.

 

You'll be the man at the "rosette" weld by the time you're done with this project!

 

If you need help with paint products and body prep for paint, just ask-I am currently painting this in between manifolds and drywalling the new workroom on the shop:

 

KIMG0520_zpsilej0xvl.jpg

 

KIMG0566_zpssbvlzz81.jpg

 

Wow, thank you so much for all your advice, this is all news to me. I'll look into getting that wire asap and try it out.



#45 Wutang_415

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 10:19 AM

That being said, I've gotten a little bit more work done before your advice: 

sSJQGeml.jpg

This patch was a pain, hence the hammer marks. Good thing no one will actually have to look at this. Its for sure cold. I will attempt to bring up the voltage to 3 on the miller, and just run quicker tacks. Also, the shoot-to-fill smaller rust holes on the right was not the best method. I should have just cut out that section too, but oh well, thats how I learn. I grinded it all down and it looks a little more decent.

 

This was a little more exciting:

IThFQscl.jpg

 

I decided to do a lap weld here. From what I read online it would be the easiest/best method. Here I went up to 3 on the voltage, but I'm still not totally satisfied with these tacks... I still have to do the other side so I'll see if I can get that 20G wire and try a butt weld the second time.

 

LJKT1Idl.jpg

 

It took too many hours to line up but it turned out fine. I sprayed the overlapping section with weld through copper primer hoping to protect that 1/2" of bare sandwiched metal. I think I'll cut out the rest of that trunk floor up to the tire well. Too many salt holes to plug up, might as well start fresh.

 

More progress to come! Thanks everyone for the tips.  B)

 

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#46 Draker

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 10:22 AM

Looks great!


View my 69 510 4dr Sedan - Build Thread
View my 71 510 2dr Sedan - Coming soon.

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#47 Xnke

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:31 PM

That lap weld WILL rust later. Sorry buddy, but that weld-thru primer won't help a bit with the rust...might last an extra year. Also, you will never be able to make adjustments for weld distortion with a hammer and dolly later-the double-layered panel means you can't stretch those welds.

 

Also, because lap welds aren't sealed on the back side of the panel, any body filler you put in will loose adhesion due to moisture later. If you're going to keep the lap joint, make sure you fully weld it, make sure it's sealed up, and seam seal the crap out of it on the inside before you paint it.

 

I used to lap weld stuff, but I have learned over the last 10 years what a mistake it really is.



#48 Wutang_415

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 11:09 AM

Thanks Xnke, I'll make sure to seal this one.

 

More progress... slowly but surely...

 

FG17Sdbl.jpg

 

o9woLDdh.jpg

 

And to think I have to do this all again on the other side...  :sleep: At Least I'm feeling better with the welder settings, seems like more voltage has been doing the trick. 

 

Also revisited some old paper work I saved on the car:

jWCAPBtl.jpg

 

The odometer now reads 12k. I got the car from a friend of the original owner who bought it just to flip it. The tags were dated 2005 when I got it. This along with other mileage paperwork leads me to believe the car indeed only has 112k original miles. Pretty rad. It's a reminder -- she's worth it!



#49 Wutang_415

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 03:31 PM

So I need some advice... Working on the right quarter now:

 

Y7U0tQuh.jpg

 

Here's the replacement panel: (it's actually not in great shape and was cut a little sloppy)

 

cBwX0p0l.jpg?1

It looks pretty hacked DIY:

lAAyUHUl.jpg

 

Now, should I replace just the skin? Or do what I did on the other side and replace the trunk floor drops too? This is where I wish I had a futofab floor drop but I don't.

Moar oics:

Fec2Jwpl.jpg

 

I would have to cut out and replace the lower section and maybe a couple other spots:

GBfICiIh.jpg

 

I'm leaning towards keeping the original floor drops since they can be salvaged and the other panel just looks janky. What do you guys think?

 

Thanks!



#50 Wutang_415

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 02:13 PM

Some progress, decided to just do the rear quarter skin for the right side, and repair the good ol' trunk drop:

 

7zjfQrCl.jpg

 

XdsHjWUh.jpg

 

POR-15-ed:

 

IoTBo7ol.jpg

 

A trunk floor almost complete-

 

XrzAUGSh.jpg

 

Some mock-up action:

 

GF4TFAcl.jpg?1

 

The sun came out so this picture sucks, but at least its starting to look like a real car... almost there  :angel:



#51 S30Jay

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 03:01 PM

You're making great progress, I'm enjoying this.

#52 Wutang_415

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 11:13 AM

You're making great progress, I'm enjoying this.

 

Thanks!

 

Progress it is... Also issue #5,542,654,453:

 

1FqQXyjh.jpg

 

For some reason the left quarter panel does not line up with the rear valance when it's bolted to the bumper rail... not sure how this happened since the quarters are both the same size and the rails are too. Maybe the valence is bent. Either way this is a pain.



#53 Wutang_415

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 10:26 AM

Right side of the trunk floor got little (lotta) bit of love:

 

qavB9g1l.jpg

 

Left side ground down:

 

JVdinqvh.jpg

 

aaaaand seam sealer + 2x POR-15:

 

o4I3thkh.jpg

 

Trunk floor is finally done.

 

And on to the tail light panel...



#54 Wutang_415

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 08:58 AM

hello rear end - 

 

bsPqnIyh.jpg

 

The plug welds are tough on the paper thin sides of the panel so just tacking those up for now until i build a little thickness to actually plug em.

 

ySwD4iEh.jpg

 

Now I need to do the same with the valence but underneath the car . . . This will suck, any tips for plug welding upside down?  :geek:



#55 Lockleaf

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 04:06 PM

Reduce your voltage slightly compared to normal welding

Half Pint ('71 510 Goon) http://community.rat...agon/p?=1269361

 

Audrey ('69 Roadster 1600) http://community.rat...rey-the-ratster

 

Tiny Havok ('85 720 DIY built Crewcab 4x4) http://community.rat...ache/?p=1395455

 

720 Shenanigans http://community.rat...20-shenanigans/


#56 Voidtraveler

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 08:08 PM

This thread gives me hope for some of the cars I've been considering buying.

#57 sebpv

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 05:59 PM

tack multiple times then melt them all
Blame my french side if you don't understand

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#58 carterb

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 08:04 PM

Always great to see someone saving a 510!



#59 Wutang_415

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 11:20 AM

Thanks everyone for your comments and insight!

 

Here she was at Canby:

 

G46Fp2nh.jpg

 

By blue lake time she should be "done"  B)



#60 Wutang_415

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 10:41 AM

Her longest trip yet to the river (with four people) she did just fine!

lRoyW3Lh.jpg?2