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What to do for a race car?


HRH

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Well I needed Ratsun when it was down for a query.  Fortunately I think I've answered my own question with some sleeping and careful consideration.  Here's the deal:

 

I was debating retiring the Maxima autocross car as I didn't know if it has what I need to win fastest time of day at autocross.

 

I was given a good deal by my Datsun guru to buy his 2nd gen RX7 which is already VG30 powered, and already caged, but it is still a chunk of change.  It also hasn't run in 7 years.  Going to need a lot of freshening up.

 

I debated heavily last night as the 2nd gen RX7 is a better platform than the Maxima sedan and would undoubtedly be capable of more.  HOWEVER, in the interest of Ratsun, and the main interest in my pocketbook, I've opted to keep trying to beat my dead horse even further, and just commit to getting better tires and a lower geared rear diff to pull some hp out of the corners.

 

I even debated building the MG Midget I acquired.  Instead, I put it up on craigslist.  $400+$580 for the trailer I converted to haul it.  If it doesn't sell, I'll keep the trailer and it will go to pull and save and I'll have learned a $200 lesson.

 

The other option is to just get a Miata.  As much as that makes sense, I don't want to do it.  I raced a Miata, it was awesome, but it's just a Miata.  I like Datsuns better, even though the Miata is one of the finest racing vehicles out there.  I did come to an interesting realization that would make the Maxima much better for weight balance, and that would be an EJ25 behind the front seats, with the transaxle powering the rear wheels.  However, that would be a lot of time and fabrication.

 

Right now, I'm in the top 25-30 cars.  I'm separated by approximately 3-4 seconds.  This is one street tires, although very good RS3 Hankooks.  They say when you switch to slicks it's worth 2 seconds, which is probably true as I could use more grip.  That means I'll be within a second or two of FTD.  I'm still running 3.55 gears out back, which means I ring it through 2nd all over the course, which is great if the course flows, but on shorter courses, I can't get out of the corners quick enough since I don't have oodles of power.  In most cases I'd be better off with lower overall gearing and switching between second and third.  I have a 7500 rpm redline without issue.  Valve springs are good until 8000.  Headflow chokes at 7300.

 

The other option for better weight balance is swapping out the 2.4 inline six for a 2.2 LZ inline 4 and then the front of the engine will be sitting in line with the front axle.  As it is now, 2 cylinders hang out past the front axle.  This would relieve me of approximately 165 pounds of weight and I'd only have a 200 cc penalty.  The problem with that is it's now a motor swap, and that puts me in street mod class.  But if I'm going for fastest time of day, who cares, right?

 

Currently the car weighs 2430 pounds.  Not super light, but not super heavy.  The car winning FTD typically is a 93ish MR2 with a turbo 2 liter, and it weighs about 2600 pounds.  So clearly, suspension and power can work even if the weight is over the ideal target.

 

The other part of this equation is I can't get jack shit for the Maxima, even with all the work I've done.  It's rusted, beat to hell, and despite being completely usable, no one except another autocrosser is going to pay anything for it.  Which means I'd have to sell the truck or wagon, which I'm not going to do.  Or I'd have to save up for another 6 months, which I could do, but then what do I do with the Maxima?

 

I think I'm going to look at strengthening the unibody a bit, and the aforementioned better rear gears, more weight loss, and stickier tires and see where that gets me.

 

Anyone want to tell me I'm being a fool?

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I'd keep the Maxima.  Even though VG's are a bitch to work on, it would be the perfect motor to get the weight back.  My future hopefully race car is going that route.  Nuts to keeping it in a class.  IMO racing is about seeing what can be done with the car and the skills of the individual.  From fab skills to racing skills.  At least in my mind.  

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Haha, it's already gutted guys, save the heater core because I like to have some heat in a stripped windowless race car!  It comes down to how bad do I want to win.  The RX7 with a VG30 or VG30ET is a better bet.  But it costs more.  I already have the Maxima and as much as I want it to beat Darren's MR2, I'm not sure I'll be able to do that without a turbo.  I do have a turbo, but then there's the annoyance of trying to find an L28ET wiring harness and ecu.  Or using something else, or going custom, but remember this is Bosch Motronics I, you can't interface with it and no one builds aftermarket ecus for stuff that old.  Possibly megasquirt, but then we're in a whole other ball of cost.  And I'm not even sure if those injectors will work with the megasquirt, although I'm sure icehouse knows a way. ;)

 

The thing runs well and handles reasonably well.  If I were much better driver than Darren, I'd just beat him.  But his car is quite capable, and he's a good driver.  I'm also a good driver, but I'm running into a Maxima 4 door vs. real mid-rear engineered thing that was designed as a race car, not as a luxo-cruiser.

 

Not that that's going to stop me, of course, but the question remains is it even possible to prepare the car (short of a tube frame race chassis) to a high enough level to beat all the competition?  This would be Lotus Elise's, Miatas, and 240sx's.  In a 4 door, obscure Maxima.  Yeah, it's a long shot of mass proportions.  Even my Datsun guru has told me the car isn't going to win FTD.  If I wanted to do that, I should buy his RX7. ;)

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The V8 option is actually an even better idea, because at that point, class doesn't matter, and they have kits that fit in the 280zx, so consequently they should fit in the Maxima.  But then I'd be like everyone else with a SBC.  And the weight balance would be....well....not that much different actually.  Maybe 150 pounds more.  But oodles more torque and hp.  But I like my straight 6!!!

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Yeah, the last diesel crank I had a chance to buy was $1300.  Fuck that.  Can't find the things anymore, unless you know of some?  Besides, I need the L28 block to do that.  It would be easier to turbo the motor.  Although, power isn't the problem I don't think.  Considering a Miata can with a good driver can hang with the FTD, even beating out the MR2 some days, it would seem I need better tires, better suspension, and I just need to drive better. ;)

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There's something very appealing about the idea of winning the FTD in a 4 door Maxima. It would make winning SO MUCH sweeter than with the usual suspect RX7/Miata. At the same time, I understand, keeping your sanity is important too. 2430lbs. is no laughing matter though. As long as your suspension can keep the tires on the ground, puttying R compound slicks on it will be a whole new world of grip. To get the other 2 sec off the clock, you need to spend money, or time under the hood. If I can make a totally insane suggestion, how about an RB  :thumbup:

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I'd love an RB!  Have an extra one laying around for $500?  :D  Although, actually, the 4 cylinder makes the most sense, probably SR20, due to sticking the motor behind the front wheel line.  And yes, winning FTD in a 4 door, shitbox Maxima would be the ultimate icing on the cake, hence my interest.  Realistically, I could just get a shifter cart and go win FTD, but it would be a bullshit win and I'd know it.

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Lol, if I loose any more weight, I'll get carried off in the wind! So far, 2nd gear has been a great advantage due to the long gearing of the car.  Unfortunately, that also means it's a lot harder to accelerate out of the corners with any speed.  I can hit 65 in 2nd gear, which is great for not having to shift, but also worse for abrupt courses.  In choppier courses, I suffer.  If the course flows well, I can do pretty given I can keep it in the powerband.

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I know zip, but I want to type something in here and sound like a enthusiast  :thumbup:

 

I know that once you go FI you never go back.......but what about a simple carb/turbo setup...not looking to be a daily driver I would think the carb wouldn't be a hindrance.

 

They have been pushing and pulling thru carbs for years before FI was even a gleam in the eye.

 

Ha, well HRH, there you are  :console:

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I've thought about that too, but I'd have to change the camshaft, had it reground with EFI in mind.  Not to mention the profile is wrong for turbo.  Not too bad an idea though, I certainly wouldn't mind suck through turboing, then I'd yard off all the heavy fuel injection stuff.  And for a non-daily driver, you're right, it doesn't matter.  However, the EFI works really well, even as archaic as the system is.  And considering it's working well, I kinda don't want to mess with it.

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I've thought about that too, but I'd have to change the camshaft, had it reground with EFI in mind.  Not to mention the profile is wrong for turbo.  Not too bad an idea though, I certainly wouldn't mind suck through turboing, then I'd yard off all the heavy fuel injection stuff.  And for a non-daily driver, you're right, it doesn't matter.  However, the EFI works really well, even as archaic as the system is.  And considering it's working well, I kinda don't want to mess with it.

 

I hear ya, fixing something that is not broken usually doesn't end well.

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Honestly didn't read the whole thread but in general I like to work from the tires up.

 

The tires are the obvious option because they are the only physical connection between the car and the track. Everything else can be in an attempt to best use the tires.

 

The rest of your maxima seems pretty sorted so with tires and some fine tuning (camber/toe/pressures) you can gain a second or two.

 

Also never underestimate driver training. No matter how good you are you can always get better. Autocross is tough to try new things because of how limiting the cones can be but if you can get some time on a track or in karts (even rentals can be valuable) you can make noticeable improvements on your driving techniques. Things like where you're looking and how you think about driving can be improved in any car (or kart) and then transfered to whatever car you're competing in.

 

And lastly consider reading the speed secrets books by ross Bentley. They can be kind of simple sometimes but they can be quite helpful. Especially speed secrets 4.

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