vagrant Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 love this site and all the great info that can be found on it...too bad I cant find what I need... sooooo, on to a question.... I don't know if this is what it seems to be or if something has gone horribly wrong somewhere.... 79' 510 wagon everything was working great one day... had to replace oil pump and now it seems to pump backwards... have looked for this issue everywhere and can find nothing on it. some people have told me its a special order pump, while others have no idea about ANY other pumps for this motor. every time we try to prime the pump it draws the oil out of the filter. has anyone else ran across this issue? many have told me there's only the stock and high flow pumps for these motors and iv tried both with same results it seems. please help as the poor little car has been sitting for 8 years now ps im just a tech, 1/2 mechanic, 1/2 friend of car owner :geek: Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Why was the oil pump replaced???? It's an oil pump and well lubricated. It can get old and a bit tired but never break or seize. Next... where did you get the replacement pump? Millions were made for the L4 and L 6 cylinder and all the Z20/22/24 and even all KA series truck pumps will fit and work on your A10. The stock pumps can't possibly turn backwards and as I don't know what you put on there I can't comment. Be sure the oil level is topped up. Remove the spark plugs so the engine turns faster. Remove the oil pump and fill it with oil and install it back. Now crank it over with the valve cover off. IF the oil starts pumping it will begin leaking out of the cam towers and the cam. Pictures say a lot ... http://community.ratsun.net/topic/54932-photobucket-ratsun/ http://community.ratsun.net/topic/691-how-to-post-pictures-and-keep-online-photo-albums/ 1 Quote Link to comment
Doctor510 Posted August 1, 2015 Report Share Posted August 1, 2015 love this site and all the great info that can be found on it...too bad I cant find what I need... sooooo, on to a question.... I don't know if this is what it seems to be or if something has gone horribly wrong somewhere.... 79' 510 wagon everything was working great one day... had to replace oil pump and now it seems to pump backwards... have looked for this issue everywhere and can find nothing on it. some people have told me its a special order pump, while others have no idea about ANY other pumps for this motor. every time we try to prime the pump it draws the oil out of the filter. has anyone else ran across this issue? many have told me there's only the stock and high flow pumps for these motors and iv tried both with same results it seems. please help as the poor little car has been sitting for 8 years now ps im just a tech, 1/2 mechanic, 1/2 friend of car owner :geek: What are you doing to "prime" the pump? The motor run clock wise. What in the name if anything is telling you the oil is being SUCKED out of the filter? Like Mike asked, why are you replacing the pump? There are NO "special" pumps for the L series besides the choice of a regular or a turbo one. Please tells us just what you are doing to fix this. I am going to write a book on just how screw driver challenged some people are. Use your 1/2 mechanic tech brain, ask questions from this site, there's probably 500 years combined experience here and most of us have made EVERY blooper known to the Datsun world. If you think you are going to reinvent the wheel here, ain't gonna happen! Quote Link to comment
shacks510 Posted August 1, 2015 Report Share Posted August 1, 2015 If you had to replace the oil pump because it failed, good chance the rest of the motor is junk too. 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted August 1, 2015 Report Share Posted August 1, 2015 If it pulls the oil out of the oil filter then you must be filling it each time. This is not priming the system. What you need is the oil pump and the pickup tube full of oil. Filling the pick up tube is impractical but you can remove the pump and fill it and install. When cranking, this oil is pushed out towards the filter causing a suction in the pick up tube just like a straw. Again I don't know what was the cause was of you replacing the oil pump. If the oil light was on, perhaps the oil needed to be topped up. If this is the case, a new pump won't do anything. Check the dip stick oil level. Only thing I can think of is the pressure relief valve is stuck open or the spring was never installed in the pump. If the valve is open, any oil pumped is diverted directly back to the pump inlet and it just circles round and round not building any pressure. In this position any oil in the filter might siphon back into the oi pan. 2 Quote Link to comment
shacks510 Posted August 1, 2015 Report Share Posted August 1, 2015 Again I don't know what was the cause was of you replacing the oil pump. If the oil light was on, perhaps the oil needed to be topped up. If this is the case, a new pump won't do anything. Check the dip stick oil level.Haha! I can see someone replacing mechanical parts because of their lack of simple mantinence. If that's the case here, well, then I don't know what to tell you... 1 Quote Link to comment
vagrant Posted August 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 ok got lucky and talked to the person a bit better today and got more info. to answer the question as to why changing... 1. had car for years, motor blew/seized and got a new working motor. 2. had to remove oil pump to get into body I guess and never worked after... so worked fine out of car but not once in...doh! to answer question about where bought new pumpabout 4-5 different places and returned them all for refund....soooo.... im thinking along the lines of not priming correctly as a few have mentioned and or the spring valve not being in correctly. I have seen the pics of correct flow and internals of spring setup and the pump itself but not the car. it looks all correct from my end but he's been stuck for a while... he even tried to make an account here and didn't work so been frustrated with that and ...that leads to me... any special notes for the prime besides fill with oil and operate pump as normal? iv been looking at different images showing a ball at the end of the pressure spring, and others with a wedge point like piece and his seems to be more pin like? im guessing pics are wanted so im having it brought back for such. and as to Doctor510's post about 500 yrs exp....duh that's why im asking.... im just trying to help him out because he's not computer savvy...so please be gentile. and thank you for all the quick responses. like I said a lot of good info and I know someone has a duh fix for this issue it just sux its his first hurdle with his first rebuild on his old friend... thnx again and hope to hear some ideas that can get him on the road again Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 ok got lucky and talked to the person a bit better today and got more info. to answer the question as to why changing... 1. had car for years, motor blew/seized and got a new working motor. 2. had to remove oil pump to get into body I guess and never worked after... so worked fine out of car but not once in...doh! to answer question about where bought new pump about 4-5 different places and returned them all for refund....soooo.... im thinking along the lines of not priming correctly as a few have mentioned and or the spring valve not being in correctly. I have seen the pics of correct flow and internals of spring setup and the pump itself but not the car. it looks all correct from my end but he's been stuck for a while... he even tried to make an account here and didn't work so been frustrated with that and ...that leads to me... Woah woah woah.... nobody returns 4-5 oil pumps for the refund. There can't be that many bad ones in a row. Is the drive spindle still in the engine????? These things... The top part turns the distributor. The bottom part turns the oil pump. The middle gear is turned by the crankshaft. 1 Quote Link to comment
Doctor510 Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 The ones on the right are the correct ones for you motor. Quote Link to comment
edekalil Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 I can't say I have herd of an oil pump pumping oil backwards. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 It can't even if the drive gear was on backwards. Engine would have to turn backwards. If the pump was removed to get the engine in maybe the drive spindle fell out and was forgotten to put back in. ok got lucky and talked to the person a bit better today and got more info. to answer the question as to why changing... 1. had car for years, motor blew/seized and got a new working motor. 2. had to remove oil pump to get into body I guess and never worked after... so worked fine out of car but not once in...doh! to answer question about where bought new pumpabout 4-5 different places and returned them all for refund....soooo.... im thinking along the lines of not priming correctly as a few have mentioned and or the spring valve not being in correctly. I have seen the pics of correct flow and internals of spring setup and the pump itself but not the car. it looks all correct from my end but he's been stuck for a while... he even tried to make an account here and didn't work so been frustrated with that and ...that leads to me... any special notes for the prime besides fill with oil and operate pump as normal? iv been looking at different images showing a ball at the end of the pressure spring, and others with a wedge point like piece and his seems to be more pin like? im guessing pics are wanted so im having it brought back for such. and as to Doctor510's post about 500 yrs exp....duh that's why im asking.... im just trying to help him out because he's not computer savvy...so please be gentile. and thank you for all the quick responses. like I said a lot of good info and I know someone has a duh fix for this issue it just sux its his first hurdle with his first rebuild on his old friend... thnx again and hope to hear some ideas that can get him on the road again 1 Quote Link to comment
Three B's Racing Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 L series oil pumps cannot pump backwards period, ok unless the engine is running backwards hehehehehe. No need to fill with oil to prime all I ever done was pour oil down against the passengers side of the timing cover did this for numerous engines, it'll fill the pump. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Filling the pump with oil is just good practice. It helps prime the pump and get the oil up faster to the bearings. It's also good to half fill the oil filter. Dumping oil down the timing chain in no way will fill the oil pump. It just falls into the oil pan. 1 Quote Link to comment
vagrant Posted August 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 sorry for the delay but i made a page to try to explain all the issues http://lbvagrant.com/oil/oil.htm it has a video showing the flow but lost audio in the copy over. thnx again for all your help and the car owner wish's to say his thnx as well... Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Can't tell from the vid which way you are turning, but whatever. OK... the larger hole on the pump is the inlet from the oil pan. The smaller hole is the pressure side. Does that help? Quote Link to comment
Just Joel Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Is it simply the confusion between inlet and outlet while attempting to prime the pump or have you actually tried to run the motor 4-5 times without building oil pressure? Quote Link to comment
vagrant Posted August 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 have you actually tried to run the motor 4-5 times without building oil pressure? yes... the owner says it always draws from the filter though and empties it out. has no pressure guage so iv allready ripped on him for that one...and thats needed to test for pressure either way he thinks it may be flowing... his testing for flow direction led to air being blown through each port to see where it led and his is backwards compaired to what king rat said...? and yes king rat that helps a bit because iv never got confirmation on what was spose to be. his test shows large going to filter and small going to pan. :crying: and this is where he has been sitting for a few years trying to figure out what happened and or what he bought? im planning a trip to see it myself someday but as of now im going from his tests and my suggestions. im not sure how the flow path image relates to real life location of ports and upside down looking at things may be a factor as well, but the flow image seems to show other way around? it sounds like everything is doing what its spose to be doing and im leaning back toward not priming correctly or somthing along those lines... :confused: Quote Link to comment
vagrant Posted August 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 What you need is the oil pump and the pickup tube full of oil. just relized he never mentiond the pickup tube... is this a removable part or is it part of the tube system that cant be moved? do we have an image of that? not sure if relevent but just a thought Quote Link to comment
izzo Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 try hitting it with a dildo Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 The pick up tube is attached to the right side of the block about half way back just inside the oil pan mounting surface. It hangs down into the lowest part of the oil pan and has a strainer on the end. Without it, oil can't get into the block gallery and to the oil pump. Oil is sucked up the pick up tube and travels into the block oil gallery. Then forward to the timing cover that holds the oil pump. Down into the pump and back up and into another gallery in the block that directs it back to the oil filter. Once filtered, it enters yet a third gallery that spans from front to rear of the block and all lubrication is drawn from it. L oil pumps don't run backwards. There are no other oil pumps that will and no one would go to all the trouble of making one. Oil pumps that work on the L4 and L6 cylinder engines carried over and were also used on the LD (L series diesel engines) the Z series (NAPS) and the KA series engines with external oil pumps. All are interchangeable but the KA are larger internally and pump more volume. 1 Quote Link to comment
KoHeartsGPA Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 *head explodes* Pick up tube is that curved metal thing in this picture... Pull your oil pan down and if looks like in this picture and the seal between the oil pick up and block is actually sealing, then I have no clue why your pumps aren't pumping properly... Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Pump has been replaced 4-5 times so unlikely the pump. This is a replacement engine for the one that blew up. It's never worked so someone has messed with it before you got it. Take distributor cap off and crank engine over... does the rotor turn??? NO... the drive spindle is missing or gear stripped YES.. everything seems ok. Is there oil in the oil pan about 4 liters or quarts? NO... fill it up correctly YES.. remove engine or oil pan if you can get at it, and inspect the oil pick up tube. Is tube there? Is the tube loose? Is tube bent up and above oil level? Is there a gasket between the tube and the block? 2 Quote Link to comment
Three B's Racing Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Filling the pump with oil is just good practice. It helps prime the pump and get the oil up faster to the bearings. It's also good to half fill the oil filter. Dumping oil down the timing chain in no way will fill the oil pump. It just falls into the oil pan. I didn't say to dump oil down the timing chain El Ray <The King 8>) and you are correct simply dumping on the chain won't get to the pump but other than that what I said was " pour oil down against the passengers side of the timing cover did this for numerous engines, it'll fill the pump" I've done this so many times I can't think straight. Quote Link to comment
Just Joel Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong but there is no part of the actual pump oil gallery exposed inside the timing cover. One side goes to the oil filter and the other to the pickup tube. 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 I didn't say to dump oil down the timing chain El Ray <The King 8>) and you are correct simply dumping on the chain won't get to the pump but other than that what I said was " pour oil down against the passengers side of the timing cover did this for numerous engines, it'll fill the pump" I've done this so many times I can't think straight. Correct, (my mistake) you did say pour oil not dump oil. But you did say pouring the oil down the chain fills the pump. .... No need to fill with oil to prime all I ever done was pour oil down against the passengers side of the timing cover did this for numerous engines, it'll fill the pump. ... guess you mean... fills the sump? Correct me if I'm wrong but there is no part of the actual pump oil gallery exposed inside the timing cover. One side goes to the oil filter and the other to the pickup tube. Nothing is exposed inside. The timing cover conducts oil to and from the oil pump. 1 Quote Link to comment
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