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Milkshake! oh no......edit: now solved!!


Rays74

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Wow! All those deposits only after a 1000 miles? After a rebuild? Plugs in 1,2 & 3 look good, 4 looks like shit. Looks like there may be some vertical cracks in # 2 bore near the top. You know when you want stuff done right, you gotta do it yourself!

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Rays74,

 

I am very interested in this topic.  My boys and I just got our L20b completely machined and running (U60).  It runs fantastic.  With about 100 miles on it we encountered the exact same coffee colored coolant issue as you yet no water in the oil.  We replace the head gasket with a felpro, doubled washered the head bolts (as we heard that they could possibly bottom out if the head was extremely milled as ours is) and re-torqued. We have drained the coolant a few times trying to ride the head and block of the old mocha latte colored shit.  My fear is that we are still having this issue.  

 

Both our head and block were machined, top and bottom.

 

I called my machinist, he is recommending we remove the head again and force a small amount of air back down into the small oil port and see if we see any bubbles in surrounding water channels.

 

Please keep your post updated as it sounds like we have the exact same issue.  

 

I am currently looking for a replacement block and head.  That way once figured out I will know which to replace.

 

I have several pics of my head and gasket under the New Guy on project Datto.

 

Let us know how the coolant pressure test went.

 

Kevin

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Did you get a good look at the head gasket? You can tell a lot by looking closely at the head gasket. Sometimes there are water stains where there should not be any water. Sometimes you can see coloration on the sealing rings around the bore. Sometimes the sealing ring is cracked or squished but not entirely blown.

 

It's hard to tell from the pics, but I think I can see some water staining on the area around the small water passage between the two center cylinders. And the sealing ring marks on the head between the two center cylinders looks a bit off, but the glare from the sun makes it hard to see.

 

You might want to have the head pressure checked to see if it has an internal crack. They have been known to crack at the oil passage inside the head. Mr Gasket used to sell a repair sleeve for that, but they are no longer available.

 

If oil got in the water, but not vice versa, I would pressurize the oil galleys and start spraying soapy water around and see if any bubbles appear. That's not a definitive measure, but one of many tools to help seek out a crack.

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Rays74,

 

I am very interested in this topic.  My boys and I just got our L20b completely machined and running (U60).  It runs fantastic.  With about 100 miles on it we encountered the exact same coffee colored coolant issue as you yet no water in the oil.  We replace the head gasket with a felpro, doubled washered the head bolts (as we heard that they could possibly bottom out if the head was extremely milled as ours is) and re-torqued. We have drained the coolant a few times trying to ride the head and block of the old mocha latte colored shit.  My fear is that we are still having this issue.  

 

Both our head and block were machined, top and bottom.

 

I called my machinist, he is recommending we remove the head again and force a small amount of air back down into the small oil port and see if we see any bubbles in surrounding water channels.

 

Please keep your post updated as it sounds like we have the exact same issue.  

 

I am currently looking for a replacement block and head.  That way once figured out I will know which to replace.

 

I have several pics of my head and gasket under the New Guy on project Datto.

 

Let us know how the coolant pressure test went.

 

Kevin

We'll both be learning here huh Kev?  :)

Ray is this the same motor befor the rebuild other wise I dont think the machine shop will crack anything. If a unkno motor from a junk yard then anything is suspect.

Yes it is.......sadly though I have no history on the motor so it may have been a Turkey before it was rebuilt.

Did you get a good look at the head gasket? You can tell a lot by looking closely at the head gasket. Sometimes there are water stains where there should not be any water. Sometimes you can see coloration on the sealing rings around the bore. Sometimes the sealing ring is cracked or squished but not entirely blown.

 

It's hard to tell from the pics, but I think I can see some water staining on the area around the small water passage between the two center cylinders. And the sealing ring marks on the head between the two center cylinders looks a bit off, but the glare from the sun makes it hard to see.

 

You might want to have the head pressure checked to see if it has an internal crack. They have been known to crack at the oil passage inside the head. Mr Gasket used to sell a repair sleeve for that, but they are no longer available.

 

If oil got in the water, but not vice versa, I would pressurize the oil galleys and start spraying soapy water around and see if any bubbles appear. That's not a definitive measure, but one of many tools to help seek out a crack.

The head gasket didn't put up much of a fight when I pulled it apart and sadly it split apart bad enough that if it had any tell tale signs of distress I never got a chance to see it. I have an appointment to pressure check the cooling system tomorrow so maybe I'll have an idea where my prob is.....*crossed fingers*

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None yet, my work schedule has been hectic this past week :(    I HAVE been driving it in 100+ heat and it hasn't given any probs even with the stock 4 blade fan and orig 2 row radiator (I do a lot of city driving idling etc) so I don't know what to think....lol.

I do have thoughts of flushing everything using mineral spirits then water just to clear it, maybe I'll have time this weekend. 

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We use 50/50 simple green/water mix to flush our diesel engines on big rigs when oil or fuel gets into the cooling system.

 

Run the engine like that for two thermostat cycles, then drain and do two more cycles of just water, drain and add the coolant, cycle it and let it be.

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We did a simple green flush as well.  Ran it a few days and...oh shit, look at all the oil in the coolant.  Then bought a head online from the same Al.  But this head seems to check out so far, we spent two full days going through it.  The new head is on the engine.  Tomorrow night we fit the timing chain cover and keep going.  I'm hoping to have an update by Friday.  I'm telling you, our old head, although machined, looks like crap.  I am convinced this will fix the problem.

 

I feel terrible that my boys have to drive the kia to school!!!!!!!

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  • 1 month later...

Soooooo another update.....I finally tore it back apart after having the pressure check done (it did have a slow leak when the radiator was pressurized) and as before I don't see anything glaringly wrong......the middle pistons are still cleaner than their outter siblings which does suggest water entry but we will see. I did hit on an idea to fill the exposed water jackets in the block with water and soap (easier to spot bubbles) and then pressurize the oil gallery and watch for any bubbles in nearby water ports............nada, I could hear the air escaping through the bearings and such through the timing chain cavity but saw nothing in the water solution sitting in the block. Should I assume then that the block MAY be ok? That oil feed is the only place in the block that oil and water come anywhere near each other as far as I know?

Next I will be dropping the cyl head off to get checked out.  

BTW.....the 4th pic shows a weird area on the bore.....hmmmmmm.

--Ray

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Next I will be dropping the cyl head off to get checked out.  

 

BTW.....the 4th pic shows a weird area on the bore...

That's the next logical step. Blocks can rust internally and develop a leak between the oil galley and the cooling passages, but that's not so common. Pressure check the head and hopefully you find a leak there.

 

The weird area in the bore is staining from rust. Water gets into the bore and sits there causing the rings to rust to the cylinders. If it happens orten enough, it can look exactly like the bore in your pic. This is an indication that the problems are only in that bore so have a peek at the water passages in the block and head around that bore. Take a really good look. You might see a pinhole in the head where it's leaking water only into that bore or a crack between the valves or the water passages have eroded just enough to leak past the head gasket..

 

Definitely have the head pressure checked.

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Thanks yeah that bore has me a little concerned.......but the engine ran fine and didn't consume huge amounts of oil, it had little to no blowby when running (the valve cover port always had a little vacuum when a finger was stuck against it) so I'm assuming all is well with ring seal.

I have crossed fingers that he finds something obvious wrong with that head......  B).

Re: head gasket.....printoseal is what this Felpro gasket has on it, I was told (on here) it was a decent alternative to the oem item....no?

thx,

--Ray 

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  • 2 months later...
  • 4 weeks later...

Update:  I got the cylinder head (A87 peanut, no cut) off the car and over to my machinist to be tested for any cracks or such and he found it in good shape....no leaks under pressure. Hmmmmm well I   had one of the stocker 210 heads that Kevin (post above) had so graciously given to me freshened up (it's the wife's wagon, besides the 240z flat tops and mild cam it's dead stock) and crossed my fingers that this would end our oil-water probs. .........

 

Well it's been a little over a month and approx 600miles and I'm happy to report NO MILKSHAKE!!   Whoo Hooooo :D

On a side note....the little L16 seems even peppier with the smaller valve head......strange but even with the smaller Hitachi carb (it's running the orig size DAH-328) it runs very strong. 

So a successful journey through it all, even if I didn't actually find HOW that other head was causing the problem.........I can live with it :)

--Ray

Bright green coolant, yay!

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I thought about it (my truck's L18 is do for a replacement so it would be the likely recipient ) , it would be nice to have a definitive answer as to that peanut head's health. 

If and when I do roll those dice I will certainly post it :) 

--Ray

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The head is likely scrap, I had the same thing happen years ago, and when I told Dan Hart about it, he told me exactly what I just told you, "the head is scrap, throw it away".

I told him that it didn't happen when driving around town, just on the hiway, and he said that was because I had full constant oil pressure on the hiway, while around town it went up and down.

He even elaborated the reason I was getting oil in the water jacket, he said it only leaks very slowly like a very slow leak in a tire, and was not detectable with pressure testing as he had a customer that had the same issue years before, he had the head off a couple times and nothing fixed it, so he bought another head and installed it and the problem was solved, and out the door that vehicle went without returning for the same issue.

After that it bugged him so bad that he had the head sliced like a loaf of bread till he found the crack inside the head, it was not fixable.

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