Rays74 Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Soooooo this is a strange one.....the newly rebuilt L16 (.030 over flat tops, newly redone closed chamber A87, L20B cam) in my wagon has a strange development where after less than 600mi the radiator fluid has oil in it. No water in the oil but OIL in the water :confused: I figured maybe headgasket so I pulled it all apart, cleaned out the radiator as best I could (that coffee colored isht was everywhere...lol) and checked it over.....new Felpro gaskets and reassembled. Another 350mi and we're back to oil in the water.....what have I missed? Again, there is NO water in the crankcase, that oil is fine and clear but over time the radiator water turns to coffee colored oily water. The engine runs xlnt and does not smoke but it is using a little oil which I figure is what's being mixed in the radiator. I'm stumped :crying: --Ray 1 Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 was all the same parts used? head and block? If ok before I would assume its not cracked. If soemthing different was added then that could be the culprit. You dont think its just residue? Quote Link to comment
Rays74 Posted July 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Yep, I didn't change anything but the headgasket (which did look a little suspect but hard to actually tell when it tears apart) and assorted other gaskets. I suppose a crack could be there (block or head) but I would've assumed the water and oil would be mixing in the engine too and not just the radiator? I did think maybe I hadn't gotten all of the remnants of oil out of the block/radiator when I flushed it but it looks like it's getting worse as miles are put on it. It's a 4sp btw, no oil cooler in the radiator. Pics added: Quote Link to comment
Ed-datsun521 Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Maybe you cracked the block by over tightening the head on there it's only supposed to be like 20 then 40? And over bore Pistons making the crack easier to happen I'm talking about the bolt number five that's in between a oil and water passage But maybe just gasket will not know until u take it apart : / Quote Link to comment
Rays74 Posted July 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Thanks Ed, both good ideas: would either of those give me the symtoms I have? Namely no water in oil BUT oil in the water?? thanks! Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 L16s dont crack as like the L20s in the middle as where you explaned and you can do .080 over ez as I did on my 510 PS Nice wagoon. Yeah that dont look to good. clean and recheck the oil passage hole that come up from the block. Is this a Felpro head gasket? I have had OK luck with them. only by chance and I say by chance you didnt put any sealant along the water passage from the timming cover to block where the water goes. But usually water goes in the oil.Once it pressurizes up Quote Link to comment
LenRobertson Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Years ago the 1600 in my 510 started consuming coolant, just slightly at first then quite a bit toward the end (it finally started running a high enough engine temp I was afraid to keep using it). I never had water in the oil, but had oil in the radiator and smell of antifreeze from the tailpipe. With the engine warmed up I could look in the radiator and when speeding the engine up bubbles would appear in the coolant. I suspect that depending on where a head gasket blows, coolant may or may not get into the oil. I fixed my blown head gasket by sticking in an L20b. :D I assume you checked the head for flatness when you had it off, but have to ask to be sure. I don't recall the spec for being warped, but I think it is only a few thou. So you need a pretty accurate straight edge to really tell. Some guys claim you need to be fanatical about cleaning the block and head surfaces, but I don't know how clean is clean. If this is a rebored engine I would think both the head and the block have been resurfaced, but I guess that depends on the shop doing the machine work. As hainz said - Nice wagon. Seeing it doesn't help my goon fever go away, especially with a couple for sale I could go look at. So far I'm resisting, but feel myself weakening. Len Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Oil pressure is always higher than the rad water pressure so it will only go one way. The head would have to be way fucked up for oil to get out from that feed hole. Another place where the oil under pressure and water are close together is the front timing cover. Oil under pressure from the pump passes up through the timing cover and then into a gallery through the block to the oil filter. Right near by is the lower rad inlet into the pump and the pump outlet into the block. As you have replaced t5he head gasket The chances of over looking a flaw or failing to clean the two surfaces is... unlikely. The front cover may have a crack or an old piece of gasket stuck to the mating surface? Agree with Len. Easy enough to check the head flatness, won't hurt. Quote Link to comment
Rays74 Posted July 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 I bought the engine rebuilt from a reputable Ebay seller from here in So Cal. I would normally have rebuilt it myself (I'm a 35yr m/c tech) but I liked the idea of having it done and drop in. I have no idea if that cover may have a prob and truthfully I didn't realize it had oil pressure in it :) I know that oil pressure is always greater than the water but when the engine is shut down it SHOULD flip.....no oil pressure and the water in theory would force back where the oil was. Like I said, that part isn't making sense as the oil is perfect. When I had the head off here (in the pics) I really shoulda had my machinist crack & pressure check it.......hindsight is 20/20 :( 1 Quote Link to comment
MicroMachinery Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Reputable Ebay seller... was it by chance "California-Datsun"? http://community.ratsun.net/topic/66882-dont-do-business-with-california-datsun-formely-datsun-parts-llc/page-1 Quote Link to comment
Rays74 Posted July 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Reputable Ebay seller... was it by chance "California-Datsun"? http://community.ratsun.net/topic/66882-dont-do-business-with-california-datsun-formely-datsun-parts-llc/page-1 Yes. Bummed to see that, Al was a decent seller for quite a number of years.......wonder what happened? Anyways, I bought the engine from him a few years ago and just tucked it away until I was ready to use it......fast forward to this Spring and now it goes to work. Appreciate all the opinions and heads up regarding CD (aka Datsun Parts) Quote Link to comment
Ranman72 Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 sounds like a cracked head or block Quote Link to comment
Rays74 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 sounds like a cracked head or block Even though no water in the oil? Where would the crack be that it acts like a one-way valve?? Bummer, the engine runs xlnt and has good power and doesn't heat up even in the middle of So Cal 90+ degree summer Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 The oil feed up through the head to the cam could possibly have an internal crack and leak into the water jacket. Pretty rare though. Notice how the middle cylinders are so clean??? This usually is coolant getting in, even in small amounts. There's nothing like steam cleaning.... but I don't see any indication of a bad gasket. Check the head for flatness. You are allowed up to 0.05" of warp. If you can just barely slip a 5 thou feeler gauge under a straight edge set along the length of the head you're just at the upper limit. Any more and it needs to be fly cut. Is the filter... orange? Quote Link to comment
Rays74 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 The oil feed up through the head to the cam could possibly have an internal crack and leak into the water jacket. Pretty rare though. Notice how the middle cylinders are so clean??? This usually is coolant getting in, even in small amounts. There's nothing like steam cleaning.... but I don't see any indication of a bad gasket. Check the head for flatness. You are allowed up to 0.05" of warp. If you can just barely slip a 5 thou feeler gauge under a straight edge set along the length of the head you're just at the upper limit. Any more and it needs to be fly cut. Is the filter... orange? :blush: ....it is. If the head checks out OK for pressure testing my only option then is too start over with another block eh? Just bummed. I may take it up the road and see about having the cooling system pressure tested, just to see what happens. Quote Link to comment
Pacific coast Datsun Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Hi Ray im sorry to hear about your motor issues & dont mean to hijack your thread but..please PM me. Our swdp bbq is on Aug 23 & we want you guys there. Thanks.. Quote Link to comment
KoHeartsGPA Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 From the looks of 3 of those spark plugs and valves, that thing has been running lean, cracked head maybe..... Quote Link to comment
Rays74 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 From the looks of 3 of those spark plugs and valves, that thing has been running lean, cracked head maybe..... Lean? No, that mocha coffee color is just about spot on as far as mixture goes.......as you get leaner that tan turns to a dull grey and THAT is where trouble is. :) 1 Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 try swapping a head out and maybe it will go away. here is why I like using my old blocks and heads(have rebuilt) as you know the history of the parts. Quote Link to comment
KoHeartsGPA Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Lean? No, that mocha coffee color is just about spot on as far as mixture goes.......as you get leaner that tan turns to a dull grey and THAT is where trouble is. :) Ah ok, looks white on my phone... Quote Link to comment
Rays74 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 So next step is to flush all that Frappuccino colored isht out....gonna throw some engine flush through the radiator as that seems to loosen the oily bits and clear the water jackets (it's a solvent). Then refill and it's off to pressure test. Quote Link to comment
mhub91 Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 that sucker is lean and burning coolant! Quote Link to comment
Rays74 Posted July 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 that sucker is lean and burning coolant! Lol you're the 2nd one in this thread who thinks it's lean :rofl: ......nope, again that coffee color on the plugs and exh valves is right in the ballpark. I agree though that we have some unwanted water induction going on :crying: Quote Link to comment
Rays74 Posted July 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 A good friend runs a local Honda shop and he's offered to use his cooling sys pressure tester to see what we can see........ Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 I dont think lean either I run 32/36s all the time with who knows jet set up and all run fine. Only my 38/38 for a land cruiser was the plugs black(over rich) but ran good. if leaks swap a head or hear where it comes from. hopefull the head as its ez to change Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.