Auto to manual swap(2 questions)

[DatsSully]

So I'm swapping in a L20b to my 710 and only have a flywheel to attach to it so I decided to do the manual swap I've been planning as well. I've gotten most of the parts I need, stock style MC, clutch kit on the way, a 63A 5spd Dogleg trans with wire harness and most of the shifter linkage, and motivation to get the car on the road again after 2 years. From what I can tell it'll be a straightforward swap but I'm caught up on 2 things right now.

 

1) I need a clutch pedal still and being on the east coast parts stock are basically non-existent. So I've been looking at Tilton pedal assemblies but they seem a little past my level of experience. Is there an aftermarket pedal assembly that can use the stock MCs and that can be fairly easily installed(Drill a few holes and run line to the MC) or any option I've overlooked? 

 

2) With the 3 speed still partly in the car(Engine is pulled) I measured it's length and found its 1-2" longer than the Dogleg, will this require me to have the driveshaft modified? I was told from multiple sources I wouldn't but people can be wrong and nothing ever goes as planned lol.

 

 

[datzenmike]

It's easy to end up with a slope measurement, like from the edge of the bell housing to the transmission tail and it will be longer. Stand the transmission up (on blocks of wood) and place a straight edge across the tail and measure vertically down to the bell.

 

If you get 1/2" well, it will still work.

 

Be sure to replace the oil seal in the end of the tail and rub some grease or oil on it so it doesn't start up dry.

 

Your automatic will have two wires for the interlock switch. These will need to be connected together so the starter will engage. The only other wires are the ones to the reverse lamp switch on the 5 speed.

[LenRobertson]

You may understand the different sizes of throw-out bearing sleeves, but I thought I'd mention it in case you aren't quite clear on the subject. The collar that the TO bearing is pressed onto must match the height of the clutch pressure plate. Looking at this chart:

 

http://datsun510.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=13336&ppuser=263

 

it appears if you have a 200mm flywheel and ordered a clutch kit for a 710 or '77-'79 200SX or later model 510 (cars that the dogleg originally came in) your sleeve should be good. But study the chart yourself. Morning coffee hasn't fully kicked in and I may be overlooking something. But if you have a 225mm flywheel or someone swapped the TO sleeve on the dogleg before you got it, then you may need a different sleeve. Here are charts for sleeve dimensions:

 

http://datsun510.com/showphoto.php?photo=6981&title=200mm-clutch-t-2fo-bearing-sleeve-specs&cat=3129

 

http://datsun510.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=6980&title=225mm-and-240mm-clutch-t-2fo-bearing-sleeve-specs&cat=3129

 

It is worth slipping your sleeve out of the bell housing and measuring it to be certain. I suppose your clutch kit includes a new TO bearing so you will have the sleeve out anyway.

 

I don't know if the 710 pedal box is anything like the one in a 510. For the 510, auto tranny cars use the same box as manual shift cars but leave the clutch peddle off. You might look at your 710 where the brake pedal arm hangs and see if there is a place to install a clutch pedal. If so you might be able to find just a clutch pedal arm that you can use.Early 510 and 610 pedals are interchangeable, but I have no idea about 710s. Maybe a 200SX or 620 clutch pedal could be modded to fit if you can find one of those in a wrecking yard. I've read of guys heating and bending the auto brake pedal arm and grinding down the pedal pad to clear the clutch pedal. So you may need only a clutch pedal and the special shoulder bolt it hangs from. 510s and 610s use a left-hand thread on the bolt the brake pedal hangs from. If you remove your 710 brake pedal you may find it is also backward thread and you must turn it clockwise to loosen.

 

Len

[tr8er]

Get stock pedals. They are all over eBay. It doesn't matter where you live when folks are willing to send them to your door. It will be far more reliable and clean.

[bananahamuck]

Quoted from my build thread ,, don't be a helpless buyer of every Datsun part you need, you won't know it dont work unless you try.

 

:)

 

 

While waiting for some clutch parts to be order (( correctly )) i changed the car over from 1 pedal to a clutch / brake system. The original brake pedal arm sits far to the left so it has to be taken off and bent straighter, so i got a big ass hammer and gave it a spanking...Then after trial fitting a few times it fits better. Then i salvaged some arms out of a 620 and a 200sx , cuz thats what i have, and trial fitted them and settled with a 200sx arm. I did this before using 71 521 parts and it worked pretty good.





This is what original brake arm looked like with stock bends and then after big hammer attack.





This is what arms look like now in car....Going to cut off the pad that is on there now after there is pressure is in system and the sit in the final positions and reweld them both on where they feel best to my feet.




off center shot........




Last time i used 521 hard lines and they fit almost perfect but this time i used 620 lines and obviously will have to bend my own lines after car is up and going.









 

[DatsSully]

Get stock pedals. They are all over eBay. It doesn't matter where you live when folks are willing to send them to your door. It will be far more reliable and clean.

 Link please

 

@ DatsunMike Thanks for the info, that'll save me a few headaches down the road

 

@ LenRobertson Yeah its a 200mm flywheel and I ordered a complete kit. I heard that there was some piece missing from the pedal box of autos but there is a spot for the clutch pedal.

 

@BananaHamuck Thanks for the info I could definitely pull that off. Any chance you have another one of those pedals left that you're willing to part with though? None of the JYs I know around here have any 25+ year old nissan/datsuns

[LenRobertson]

I'll mention another thing you may already know about, buy will be bad if you don't - the pilot bushing in the end of the crankshaft. I can't remember if a clutch kit comes with a new bushing or you need to buy one separately. Your auto tranny crank may not have a bushing installed in which case you just gently drive the new one into the crank. If there is an old bushing in the crank, the cool way to remove in is find a piece of round stock that just fits into the old bushing. Partially fill the bushing with grease. Insert the round stock and whap it with a hammer. The grease pushes the old bushing out. Or you can split the old bushing with a small cold chisel and take it out in pieces.

 

I assume with a 710 there is enough transmission tunnel clearance that you don't need to lower the tranny crossmember like is necessary on a 510, since no one has posted that you need to do this. I wonder if the tranny mount on the crossmember is the same for both auto and dogleg? I've come close a couple of times to buying a 710 wagon, so I'm always interested in anything 710 related, just in case one follows me home one of these days.

 

Len

[DatsSully]

The L20b came out of an old racecar so it should have the manual pilot bushing but I wasn't aware of that good to know.

 

As far as I know and have found I just need to reverse the XMember, I'll find out in a week or so when I start putting stuff together.

[datzenmike]

Always replace hard to get at high wear items like the pilot bushing and the release bearing and rear trans seal. The bushing is $4 but to replace it later you have to remove the transmission or the engine or both to get at it. Easily a weekend of work for a $4 part.

 

To remove I just slit them lengthwise with a bladed screwdriver in 3 places and pry out the pieces...

 

 

 

You can do it in the time it took me to post these two pictures from Photobucket. The bushing is bronze powder hydraulically pressed into shape and heated near melting to hold it together. It's porous and soaked in oil to permanently lubricate it.

[DatsSully]

Okay so I got the auto out turn out its about 5" longer than the dogleg so I'll have to order a new one.

 

It also has a different wires and connectors, and a couple of wires that aren't connected to anything at all. There's 2 blue, 2 red, and 2 yellow which aren't attached to anything besides the connector. Can anyone explain what each are for so I can figure out which I need to keep. I'm going to use a GPS speedometer so I just need the ones that make it work plus the Tach. 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

Searched it like I should have derp

 

datzenmike, on 16 Oct 2012 - 7:05 PM, said:

The two automatic interlock wires Black/Yellow stripe need to be joined and soldered together. Thes prevent the starter from working unless in PARK or NEUTRAL. Without the interlock switch they need to be joined.

The two reverse light wires, Red/Black stripe need to be connected to the reverse light switch on the dogleg. The reverse switch is located on the passenger (right) side, on the rear or tailshaft. In the picture below it's the upper left switch (just above the 63A#2 stamp). The wires can go to either terminal.

[datzenmike]

There are no long doglegs. There are some that came here on import engines in the past but very rare. You don't want rare, you want something easily relaced later if there is a problem.

 

 

Two ways to go here....

 

Get a 71B 5 speed. Millions of them sold on cars and trucks hear. Way, way stronger than the dogleg. A variety of ratios and over drives. Same length as your automatic so no drive shaft lengthening.

 

Get a 710 4 speed drive shaft which is longer than your automatic transmission. 

 

Top 710 4 speed bottom 710 automatic

[DatsSully]

I meant order a custom driveshaft oops. I don't think I'll be able to find any 710 parts around here and I'm 99% sure I just got ripped off on parts from someone out in Cali so I'll just custom order the driveshaft from a reputable place and just get a friend to help fab the other parts I need. If you know the measurements I'd need that'd be appreciated, otherwise I'll have to wait until everything is together and in to take them and order it.

[datzenmike]

The automatic transmission is 31/5" the dogleg is 26"..... so 5.5" but let a shop figure it out.

[DatsSully]

Alright so to double check before I drop it in, only the 2 red/black wires connect to the transmission, the yellow/black(On the harness they're black/green) connect only to eachother. and the blue/black and other red/black that attached to the driver side of the auto aren't used. is this correct?

[datzenmike]

The two Red/Black stripe are for the reverse lamp switch.

 

The Green and the Black/Green stripe ('76 710 FSM diagram) are for the PARK/NEUTRAL interlock and must be joined together and tapped up to insulate them electrically and from the weather. .