Not getting any power

[Old_O]

Hello everyone- glad to see this forum around. I recently purchased a 1978 B210GX for a great price. I am new to working on/understanding cars, so bare with me please. I purchased this car because of its reputation of being easier to work on than newer vehicles...so I am ready to learn. I have the Chilton manual for reference. 

 

When I first purchased the car, it ran just fine, seemed like the idle needed to be adjusted, or maybe the timing- but this was the only problem I noticed besides the brakes needing to be bled; and the headlight switch wasn't working. I had a friend over who is an old VW enthusiast, keeping his old bug and bus running precisely, he was/is helping me but lives out of town. A 240Z was also his first car long ago. After some time he revealed to me that my Datsun hadn't been driven in about ten years. 

 

Now we did not have the manual at the time of his helping me, so he was running through general tune-up procedures and changed the fluids. At one point we checked to see if the metal platform that the battery rests on was in good condition, as far as rust goes. When putting the battery back on, the opposite side of the wrench, while connected to the positive terminal, made contact with the radiator and some sparks flew.  He didn't think anything of it, and adjusted the spark plugs after that. Then when we had gone to start up the car, there was no power of any kind. So we charged the battery and it still didn't work, then taking it to an automotive shop to have the battery tested. It was apparently not good, so we purchased a new one. Still no power. He wanted to wait for the manual after that. This was just two weeks ago, so he hasn't been back since.

 

I assumed the problem is a short circuit after those sparks flew. I have been going through the electrical diagram in my manual, focusing on the path between the positive terminal on the battery and the ignition: 

Battery > Starter Motor > Ignition.

Between starter motor and ignition there are three electrical connectors. One under the hood, two in the cockpit. 

  There doesn't seem to be a fusible link in the train. I imagined the problem component would be closer to the battery. My friend wanted me to jump to the ignition switch: I replaced that with a brand new one, and still no power.

       I tested the solenoid and starter motor by connecting them with a screwdriver: the engine does turn. 

I replaced all the fuses in the fusebox under the steering wheel. 

I wasn't sure if I would get a reading on a test light with the wire leaving the starter motor, but tested it anyway, which produced no light. 

So this leaves pretty much only the three segments of wire between the starter motor and the ignition switch.

     

    Funny and interesting story time: I was sitting on the couch reading the manual the other day, hearing some clicking. The clicking sounded just like my car, so it perked my ears! It was coming through an open window all the way across the house, and there is a parking lot for a business on the other side of the fence where the car is parked, so I thought nothing of it, maybe being some sound from the parking lot... but then I heard what was without a doubt my car trying to start up. I heard it again! AND AGAIN, repeatedly trying to start up. While running out the back door, I know that sound was coming from my car, but as soon as I opened the door, it stopped.   

    Never really hallucinated like that before!! 

Then my girlfriend was cleaning the inside of the car, sprayed off some degreaser and was scrubbing off the side of the motor(hehe) when she heard the same clicking. The car tried to start up and scared her to death. She ran inside to get me and I go out there, and the car is trying to start up, jumpin in the air. 

   

         So I imagine the water was causing this somehow. 

I look inside and notice the wire coming from the starter on the way to the ignition is a little exposed at the connection with the solenoid. Could that be what caused the car to try and start? Or maybe just water connecting the starter to solenoid like with the screwdriver trick I tried earlier to get the engine to turn?

  Today I bought some automotive wire that was 16g instead of 14g. I heard it wouldnt matter, so connected one end to that exposed wire coming out of the solenoid, and the other end to the solder on the same wire that goes into the ignition switch, so as to bypass and potential bad wiring in any one of the three segments between starter motor and ignition.  Still no power!!!

 

I'm at a loss. What could it be, my new friends?  

[datzenmike]

First stop buying stuff hoping this will work. Battery was probably OK but stores will want to test it as bad so they can sell you a new one. Replacing the ignition switch without testing and knowing it was bad is just a waste of money. Trouble shoot the problem, find the problem, fix the problem.

 

Most likely the fusible link or links are blown.

 

You have a test light? Connect it to the small solenoid wire on the starter and ground the other end. Turn key to start. It should light as this is the 12 volt signal from the ignition switch. Make sure this connection is snug and making good contact.  If it doesn't light up then there is no battery power to the ignition switch. Power to the ignition switch is through a fusible link. Do the wipers and heater fan work? Do the headlights work? 

 

Fusible links are connected to the positive battery post. Look for a wire connected to the positive cable or the post connection. Follow it back. It may be under cover of a box. Look inside. Fusible links are maybe 4" long with plastic plugs on each end for easy removal. A link may look melted or even burnt. Usually Red, Green or Black depending on the current rating.

[Old_O]

Okay, I have found the issue! It was a loose wire. Now the car has power and is running again, but...I have a bigger electrical problem, perhaps.

 

The loose wire was connected to something that is not in my general Chilton manual for the b210. I am looking at the right diagram for my model, but am just not seeing it in there. It is attached to a ring that is tightened onto the battery's positive line clamp, and runs into a post under the alternator, above the oil filter. Three wires go into it: the one problem wire from the battery's positive clamp, and another wire is connected to the starter. The third wire goes into this part: http://m.imgur.com/nqZZbJI

Picture of said "post" where the three wires are connected: http://imgur.com/o7Ujp0R

 

Could anyone post a picture of what the original 1978 b210's wiring should be colored and how it should be organized? And does this post ring a bell with anyone?

http://imgur.com/0Fn9evj

[Old_O]

No help in sight, huh? 

 

Anyone in Portland with a '78 B210 that I could compare wiring with?  

[DanielC]

Patience, Grasshopper, patience!

 

This is just a forum where everyday people have Datsuns.  This is NOT a free troubleshooting service, where a team of moderators are just sitting around waiting for each new post, and jumping to their extensive libarary of Datsun service manuals, to answer every question that might come up.

 

You seem new to auto mechanics.  Lets start with this.

You always disconnect the negative battery cable FIRST.  The negative battery cable is connected to all the metal on the car, and touching any thing with a wrench on the negative battery terminal, and almost any other part of the car will do nothing. 

After disconnecting the negative battery cable, the body of the car is no longer grounded, and you can put a wrench across the positive battery terminal, and the car body and again nothing will happen.  Likewise, you reconnect the negative battery cable LAST.

 

For a car engine to crank, you need a good battery, a good starter, two battery cables, two smaller wires, and a switch.  That is it. 

the positive battery cable goes to a big terminal on the starter, and the negative battery cable connects to the engine, and the engine connects to the starter.

One smaller wire connects to the positive battery terminal, and then to a switch.  The second smaller wire goes from the switch to the small terminal on the starter.  Closing the switch makes the starter run.

 

The most common electrical problem with any car is a bad connectionj to the battery terminals.